Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
The Attic
As Wealth Tax Debate Heats Up, What Does it Mean to Invest in America?
Page <prev 2 of 2
Nov 11, 2019 13:55:33   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
Tex-s wrote:
Just take Apple as an example. In 2007 Americans had wonderful hand held phones that were A-MAZE-ING tech. No one could have wanted a smart phone like we have now, but the folks at Apple invented it, created, MADE it. The world is forever altered. Imagine all that would not be without the smart phone.... The 'Arab Spring' was coordinated via smart phones. Parents can know exactly where their children are at any moment. 911 is not only acall away but can track you even if you are lost... We would just have to pass each day without knowing what outfit the Kardashian's are wearing.....

It's in everyone's interest that creators create, that builders build, that producers produce. The surest way to stop creators creating, builders building, and producers producing is to remove their profit/investment capitol, or to force them to reduce holdings to reduce taxes. Also, as others have noted, the eventual consumer will ALWAYS pay for any taxes levied on business, via higher prices, reduced supply, or both.

Wealth envy is not productive for anyone and wealth vilification/theft is bad for everyone, maybe not immediately, but over time. As Robert Kennedy spoke "I wonder what is not and wonder why not," I suggest the future's "why not" might very well be because idiocy ran rampant in America about 2020 and we voluntarily ruined our own economy, lowered our standard of living irrevocably, stifled innovation, and punished success.
Just take Apple as an example. In 2007 Americans ... (show quote)


Great post, I wholeheartedly agree, wealth envy is not productive, I totally am against ill begotten gains through associations with our government that are less than proper and I am very dissatisfied with much of what I think that I see on Wall Street, but folks like Steve Jobs and Bezos are what has made this country great. I have never worried about equity of income but have always been concerned about equity of opportunity.

Bernie and Warren will confiscate much of the capital that fuels and grows our economy but somehow the democrats never consider the effect of such wealth confiscation. As I have said time and time again here, Bezos does not have $100 billion in the bank or laying on the kitchen table, it is invested in capital both physical and human that makes our economy work.

Reply
Nov 11, 2019 14:20:47   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
letmedance wrote:
??


It’s a tax that is paid every year, on the same piece of property. The party I responded to was trying to make a case that once you have paid tax on something, you should never be taxed on it again.

Reply
Nov 11, 2019 14:32:33   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
thom w wrote:
It’s a tax that is paid every year, on the same piece of property. The party I responded to was trying to make a case that once you have paid tax on something, you should never be taxed on it again.


Yes Thom,

I had a response and replaced it with ??, as I realized that I might be mistaken about your words. Property taxes support or States and Cities which provide the services we depend upon. Things like Schools, Law Enforcement, Fire fighters, and many more.

Did you know that Ca, and possibly other states charge a tax on business inventory?

Reply
 
 
Nov 11, 2019 15:19:37   #
Rose42
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Such a stupid article written by someone who could not possibly have more than a 3rd grade education. The taxation claims the author makes are lies and nothing better can be said for them, the author of this article is lying to you yet here you are reposting it, it only goes to show that you are indeed in need of an education yourself.


Its stupid because its from politicususa.

Reply
Nov 11, 2019 15:41:27   #
BlackRipleyDog
 
[quote=Kraken]Elizabeth Warren’s wealth tax proposal has certainly sparked debates not just about basn the very economy and infrastructure that made the success of millionaire’s possible....
"Directing resources through public policy not to the wealthy but to the worker contributes more powerfully to the health of the economy and overall society."

Oh yes and Cracken is real proof of that as he can spend 25 hours a day on this site shoveling his Politipussy bilge water. You contribute nothing to society but are a malignant cancer.

Reply
Nov 11, 2019 16:12:31   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Such a stupid article written by someone who could not possibly have more than a 3rd grade education. The taxation claims the author makes are lies and nothing better can be said for them, the author of this article is lying to you yet here you are reposting it, it only goes to show that you are indeed in need of an education yourself.


A couple of comments.....

>the f*****t progressives like Warren are well aware they can fool most the country, and all the progressives, by dividing the country and attacking our meritocracy and wealth. Example is her lame brained plan to tax wealth....the simple t***h is that it not only lacks basic math accuracy, it’s useless!
The U.S, has about 585 Billionaires with a total Combined Net Worth of about $3.096T.

Think about it, folks.....let’s even call it $3.1 trillion. You could confiscate 100% of their wealth and not even cover ONE FULL YEAR OF HER INCREDIBLY D******E, JUVENILE, AND SOCIALIST Medicare for all s**m!

In fact, the 100% confiscation would cover only about 8-9 months of the current US Federal spending
WITHOUT the additional Warren s**m.


>see this article from Steven Hayward:


THIN LIZZIE’S WEDGE
I’m starting to wonder whether Elizabeth Warren is another Karl Rove/Steve Bannon dirty trick—a plant inside the Democratic Party with the perfect appeal to make the party sign up for the biggest political suicide note since the Labour Party decided to run on unilateral disarmament against Margaret Thatcher in 1983. (Labour lost in a historic landslide.)

Warren’s Medicare-for-All will depend apparently on a 6 percent wealth tax on the super-rich, up from a previously proposed 3 percent. (Funny how the tax rate is rising already.) Here’s a riddle. Let’s just take Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates, each worth something like $100 billion in round numbers. I am continually surprised by the number of people who think that Bezos, Gates, Buffett, etc., all have $100 billion in cash in a bank savings account or something—or even stacks of $100 bills in a vault somewhere. The fact that these wealth figures are the capitalized market value of the immense asset base (tangible and intangible) on paper (and only at the margin) is lost on everyone.

So let’s just take a hypothetical annual 3% wealth tax and run it out. Gates, Bezos, Buffett, et al. will have to sell $3 billion worth of their stock holdings—each year—to send their wealth tax check to the IRS.

Question: Just who is going to buy that much stock every year?

And what would the effect of the many forced liquidations have on stock values, not to mention credit markets if Bezos decided to borrow the money every year (and, incidentally, wipe out any income tax liability for the year—heh)?

Now let’s move down the food chain a bit to the many large fortunes that are privately owned, rather than expressed in the market value of a publicly-traded company, such as people in real estate, or in any kind of business with a lot of fixed assets not easily liquidated (such as someone who owns a lot of fast food franchises). How would these assets be valued and taxed? The socialist economist advising Warren on her scheme, Gabriel Zucman, offers this suggestion:

[see first pic, below]


So—the IRS is going to get into the private placement business. Great. I’ll look forward to this, and go very long on popcorn futures. Question: And who is the IRS going to sell these “shares” to? I’m just sure there will be a long line of investors wanting to buy minority shares in a closely-held businesses, which will have to be done at a huge discount to true market value in any case.
The detachment from reality here is breathtaking. But reality may not be the main object of this whole exercise. What we’re really seeing in action is “punitive liberalism.”  I refer back to a suite of tweets I shared some months ago:

[see second pic, below]

Question: I guess it is true that billionaire Oprah Winfrey exploited a monopoly over herself, but I’m not sure just how you’d “break up” Oprah. And in any case I can’t discern any way in which Oprah competed unfairly against, say, Sally Jessie Raphael. Perhaps Prof. Reich can explain it in his next $50,000 lecture.

I like this chart that one of the wealth taxers has offered, showing what the effect would have been had the proposed wealth tax been in place starting back in 1982:

The economic illiteracy of this is staggering, as it means the enterprise value of each of the companies behind these figures would be much smaller, and/or the cost of capital (a key driver of business investment) would be much higher.
Incidentally, most European nations that attempted a wealth tax have abandoned it. But the ones that supposedly still have it fall out like this:

You’ll notice the tax rates are all substantially below what Warren is proposing. Note also that most of these European wealth tax schemes subtract debt from net worth, as they should. If adopted here, this would provide a huge incentive for rich people to load up on debt to escape or minimize the tax, and since interest is deductible against income taxes, guess what? Warren’s proposal is going to be a full employment act for tax lawyers and accountants. The evasion and financial engineering schemes are going to be massive. My hunch is that the proposed wealth tax won’t bing in even half as much as Warren estimates. Good times!





Reply
Nov 11, 2019 19:17:11   #
incognito
 
Warren says I am for the poor people and the middle class. If you believe that then you need to see a shrink ASAP. One has to just look at the ugly smirk on her face as she spews out the crap from her bottom cheeks. Look how quickly she turns to change the subject and to degrade the person asking the question. Liz is only out for Liz. She is 20 times more crooked than Trump. She has lied and lied and lied again all thru her career for her own betterment. If you don't believe it then I suggest looking up the facts.

Reply
 
 
Nov 11, 2019 19:28:32   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
incognito wrote:
Warren says I am for the poor people and the middle class. If you believe that then you need to see a shrink ASAP. One has to just look at the ugly smirk on her face as she spews out the crap from her bottom cheeks. Look how quickly she turns to change the subject and to degrade the person asking the question. Liz is only out for Liz. She is 20 times more crooked than Trump. She has lied and lied and lied again all thru her career for her own betterment. If you don't believe it then I suggest looking up the facts.
Warren says I am for the poor people and the middl... (show quote)


She’s a millionaire, like most of the democrat wannabes, whining and attacking billionaires.

This is a SNL skit already written!

Reply
Nov 11, 2019 19:40:36   #
RAR_man Loc: stow, MA
 
Kraken wrote:
Elizabeth Warren’s wealth tax proposal has certainly sparked debates not just about basic questions of fairness, of morality, but also about the economic effectiveness and very meaning of taxation.

The debate raises the question of what it means to invest in America.

Beto O’Rourke, in the last debate, jumped on the Warren-bashing bandwagon, accusing Warren’s policies of being “more focused on being punitive or pitting one part of the country against the other instead of lifting people up.”

Elaborating O’Rourke’s critique in terms of the impact of the proposed tax on the economy, Lawrence Summers, Treasury secretary under President Bill Clinton, and law professor Natasha Sarin argued in a paper they wrote that a wealth tax would “undermine business confidence, reduce investment, degrade economic efficiency and punish success in ways unlikely to be good for the country or even to be appealing to most Americans.”

While we tend to hear in the media from billionaires like Bill Gates and Leon Cooperman and not the 99/9% of households that would not pay more taxes under Warren’s proposal, polls directly contradict Summer’s and Sarin’s claim, showing overwhelming public support for a wealth tax.

But let’s assess Summer’s and Sarin’s claims that the tax would “undermine business confidence, reduce investment, and degrade economic efficiency.”

In short, let’s explore the question of what it means to invest in America and whether a wealth tax would really constitute a reduction of investment in America.

First, let’s just reflect intuitively on whether a tax on just .1 percent of American households seems likely to “undermine business confidence” and “reduce investment.” Consumer spending makes up roughly 2/3 of the U.S. economy, so it stands to reason that policies geared toward fostering a consistently robust consumer and encouraging consumer confidence in the 99.9% of households just might be a more effective approach to stimulating economic activity and ensuring the long-term economic health. Just saying.

For example, a recent study from the Illinois Economic Policy Institute highlights the many ways raising the minimum wage would significantly improve Illinois’ economy. The study contends, “By raising the minimum wage, Illinois can boost worker incomes, reduce income ine******y, increase consumer spending, grow the economy, generate tax revenues, and decrease taxpayer costs for government assistance programs.”

In a nutshell, raising the minimum wage to $15 would both save taxpayers money by decreasing the need for public assistance for the working poor (saving $87 million alone in food stamp outlays, according to the study), increase the revenue the state brings in from income and sales tax (generating, the study says, $380 million in new state tax revenue), and overall generate $19 billion in economic activity.

And let’s consider whether providing in universal childcare and helping to alleviate the burdens of college debt crippling many Americans, both benefits Warren’s wealth tax would pay for, would be good investments of our tax dollars in ways that would uplift American citizens and businesses.

Studies show that the high cost of childcare prevents women, in particular, from participating in the labor force, strait-jacketing the U.S. economy and reducing GDP by as much as five percent.

When it comes to student debt. according to a study from the Levy Institute, canceling the $1.4 trillion in student debt would spur economic activity to the tune of creating between 1.2 and 1.5 million new jobs in the first few years, creating tax-paying citizens who buy houses, start families, create businesses, and so forth.

Summers himself has made a similar point elsewhere, arguing that instead of these tax cuts, it would serve businesses better for the government to invest in the infrastructure and education of the workforce to help businesses be more competitive.

These investments in people trickle up.

And let’s remember, also, how effective Trump’s tax cut was in spurring investment and fostering economic efficiency.

These tax cuts benefited the wealthy and did not trickle down, despite Trump’s promises that companies would invest in workers and not cut jobs. Companies like AT&T, Wells Fargo, and General Motors lobbied for them, promising to re-invest their tax savings in their workers and companies to the benefit off the nation as a whole. And yet all of these companies have engaged in massive layoffs or plant closings. AT&T has eliminated over 23,000 jobs since the tax cuts went into effect, despite receiving a $21 billion windfall from the tax cuts with the prospect of cashing in an additional $3 billion annually in tax savings. In November 2018, GM announced it would be closing five plants, eliminating 14,000 jobs in communities across Ohio, Maryland, Michigan, and Ontario, Canada, while buying back $10 billion in stock and earning a net profit of $8 billion on which the company paid no federal tax. Wells Fargo did raise the minimum wage of its employees, though the tax savings for the company were 47 times larger than the cost of that pay raise to the company; and the company announced its plans in September 2018 to eliminate 26,000 jobs, at the same time that it has raised health insurance costs for its employees.

Reducing the corporate tax rate from 35 to 21 percent and saving corporations some $13 billion in taxes was supposedly to spur economic growth, create more jobs, and induce companies to raise wages. While Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin trumpeted that 90 percent of working adults would experience an increase in pay tied directly to the tax cuts, in fact only 4.3 percent of workers in Fortune 500 companies have received either a one-time bonus or an increase in wages. Businesses have reaped nine times more in tax cuts than what they have passed on to workers.

Maybe investing in people, with an toward, in fact, lifting them up, would be wiser and create a healthier economy for all, such that the wealth tax shouldn’t be viewed as punishing success but as an investment in the very economy and infrastructure that made the success of millionaire’s possible.

Directing resources through public policy not to the wealthy but to the worker contributes more powerfully to the health of the economy and overall society.

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/11/09/as-wealth-tax-debate-heats-up-what-does-it-mean-to-invest-in-america.html
Elizabeth Warren’s wealth tax proposal has certain... (show quote)


anyone that supports a wealth tax is a jerk. Everyone should be taxed at the same rate; billionaires, poor, corporations. That is e******y. Down with Warren. Down with Bernie, etc., etc. Down with socialism (the economic system that always ends in ruin).

Reply
Nov 12, 2019 09:19:18   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Essentially, Senator Warren v**e seeks to gain the White House. Like any politician, she will say or do almost anything to get elected or re-elected. In her case, she proposes radical change in the economic system. Under her Accountable Capitalism Act, Senator Warren proposes this change:

"Borrowing from the successful approach in Germany and other developed economies, a United States corporation must ensure that no fewer than 40% of its directors are selected by the corporation’s employees."

[found at: https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Accountable%20Capitalism%20Act%20One-Pager.pdf]

This change resembles the movement known as Syndicalism. Under it, workers via labor unions own the means of production and distribution -- goodbye capitalism.

The thinker Karl Marx proposed this movement as a central element of c*******m.

We may suppose that this change opens the slippery slope to more and more worker control over the performance of the economy via this proposed law. After all, the law could later dictate 45 percent and then 50 percent and so forth in the makeup of the corporate directors. Enough control would effectively equate to ownership.

This momentous change assumes that workers or their representatives have the wherewithal to put their minds around business principles and successful business operations, instead of merely self-interest.

The power of corporations would t***sform to animate a social mechanism. The relations of production would reflect not an economic outcome so much as a social one, stemming from a change in central direction.

Marx predicted that socialism would bridge capitalism to c*******m. Does Senator Warren understand this historical t***sformation? Does she unwittingly act as the early vanguard of c*******m by her proposal to alter the purpose of corporations?

You will find the other plans of Senator Warren at:
https://elizabethwarren.com/plans
Blurryeyed wrote:
You do realize that we will all be taxed and many people will be taxed right out of their employment, you can't just soak the rich for $5 trillion + per year, that much money does not exist, the taxes will hit us all, and businesses can't just absorb the costs without making adjustments elsewhere, and what has always been true is that the labor force is the easiest line on the budget to manage.

Here is anotherview for you to consider, under the 8 years of the Bush administration average household wages rose an anemic $400, under 8 years of the Obama administration average household income rose another anemic $1000, in less than 3 years under Trump average household income has risen over $5000. Something that the MSN is not reporting on but new numbers came out last week and they are even better than those in the linked article. Lizzy Warren and the progressive movement will cause a recession and put millions out of work, another cost to the government of Lizzy's empty promises because she will never get these grand plans through congress. Any Democrat threatens our economy at this point but those like Bernie and Lizzy are dangerous for the middleclass.

You Trump h**ers can h**e Trump all you want but the fact is that he is doing good things for the working families of this country.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/income-gap-growth-obama-trump-administations-economy-politics/
You do realize that we will all be taxed and many ... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 12, 2019 09:28:10   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
letmedance wrote:
Yes Thom,

I had a response and replaced it with ??, as I realized that I might be mistaken about your words. Property taxes support or States and Cities which provide the services we depend upon. Things like Schools, Law Enforcement, Fire fighters, and many more.

Did you know that Ca, and possibly other states charge a tax on business inventory?


Does anyone not know that? It's as of a certain day. it's amazing how much inventory is on a truck in Nevada on that day.

Reply
 
 
Nov 12, 2019 11:43:01   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
Kraken wrote:
Elizabeth Warren’s wealth tax proposal has certainly sparked debates not just about basic questions of fairness, of morality, but also about the economic effectiveness and very meaning of taxation.

The debate raises the question of what it means to invest in America.

Beto O’Rourke, in the last debate, jumped on the Warren-bashing bandwagon, accusing Warren’s policies of being “more focused on being punitive or pitting one part of the country against the other instead of lifting people up.”

Elaborating O’Rourke’s critique in terms of the impact of the proposed tax on the economy, Lawrence Summers, Treasury secretary under President Bill Clinton, and law professor Natasha Sarin argued in a paper they wrote that a wealth tax would “undermine business confidence, reduce investment, degrade economic efficiency and punish success in ways unlikely to be good for the country or even to be appealing to most Americans.”

While we tend to hear in the media from billionaires like Bill Gates and Leon Cooperman and not the 99/9% of households that would not pay more taxes under Warren’s proposal, polls directly contradict Summer’s and Sarin’s claim, showing overwhelming public support for a wealth tax.

But let’s assess Summer’s and Sarin’s claims that the tax would “undermine business confidence, reduce investment, and degrade economic efficiency.”

In short, let’s explore the question of what it means to invest in America and whether a wealth tax would really constitute a reduction of investment in America.

First, let’s just reflect intuitively on whether a tax on just .1 percent of American households seems likely to “undermine business confidence” and “reduce investment.” Consumer spending makes up roughly 2/3 of the U.S. economy, so it stands to reason that policies geared toward fostering a consistently robust consumer and encouraging consumer confidence in the 99.9% of households just might be a more effective approach to stimulating economic activity and ensuring the long-term economic health. Just saying.

For example, a recent study from the Illinois Economic Policy Institute highlights the many ways raising the minimum wage would significantly improve Illinois’ economy. The study contends, “By raising the minimum wage, Illinois can boost worker incomes, reduce income ine******y, increase consumer spending, grow the economy, generate tax revenues, and decrease taxpayer costs for government assistance programs.”

In a nutshell, raising the minimum wage to $15 would both save taxpayers money by decreasing the need for public assistance for the working poor (saving $87 million alone in food stamp outlays, according to the study), increase the revenue the state brings in from income and sales tax (generating, the study says, $380 million in new state tax revenue), and overall generate $19 billion in economic activity.

And let’s consider whether providing in universal childcare and helping to alleviate the burdens of college debt crippling many Americans, both benefits Warren’s wealth tax would pay for, would be good investments of our tax dollars in ways that would uplift American citizens and businesses.

Studies show that the high cost of childcare prevents women, in particular, from participating in the labor force, strait-jacketing the U.S. economy and reducing GDP by as much as five percent.

When it comes to student debt. according to a study from the Levy Institute, canceling the $1.4 trillion in student debt would spur economic activity to the tune of creating between 1.2 and 1.5 million new jobs in the first few years, creating tax-paying citizens who buy houses, start families, create businesses, and so forth.

Summers himself has made a similar point elsewhere, arguing that instead of these tax cuts, it would serve businesses better for the government to invest in the infrastructure and education of the workforce to help businesses be more competitive.

These investments in people trickle up.

And let’s remember, also, how effective Trump’s tax cut was in spurring investment and fostering economic efficiency.

These tax cuts benefited the wealthy and did not trickle down, despite Trump’s promises that companies would invest in workers and not cut jobs. Companies like AT&T, Wells Fargo, and General Motors lobbied for them, promising to re-invest their tax savings in their workers and companies to the benefit off the nation as a whole. And yet all of these companies have engaged in massive layoffs or plant closings. AT&T has eliminated over 23,000 jobs since the tax cuts went into effect, despite receiving a $21 billion windfall from the tax cuts with the prospect of cashing in an additional $3 billion annually in tax savings. In November 2018, GM announced it would be closing five plants, eliminating 14,000 jobs in communities across Ohio, Maryland, Michigan, and Ontario, Canada, while buying back $10 billion in stock and earning a net profit of $8 billion on which the company paid no federal tax. Wells Fargo did raise the minimum wage of its employees, though the tax savings for the company were 47 times larger than the cost of that pay raise to the company; and the company announced its plans in September 2018 to eliminate 26,000 jobs, at the same time that it has raised health insurance costs for its employees.

Reducing the corporate tax rate from 35 to 21 percent and saving corporations some $13 billion in taxes was supposedly to spur economic growth, create more jobs, and induce companies to raise wages. While Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin trumpeted that 90 percent of working adults would experience an increase in pay tied directly to the tax cuts, in fact only 4.3 percent of workers in Fortune 500 companies have received either a one-time bonus or an increase in wages. Businesses have reaped nine times more in tax cuts than what they have passed on to workers.

Maybe investing in people, with an toward, in fact, lifting them up, would be wiser and create a healthier economy for all, such that the wealth tax shouldn’t be viewed as punishing success but as an investment in the very economy and infrastructure that made the success of millionaire’s possible.

Directing resources through public policy not to the wealthy but to the worker contributes more powerfully to the health of the economy and overall society.

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/11/09/as-wealth-tax-debate-heats-up-what-does-it-mean-to-invest-in-america.html
Elizabeth Warren’s wealth tax proposal has certain... (show quote)


Post number three today from whacked out politicususa. What a surprise Krackhead. Send it to your people in kanuckistan, they believe anything.

Reply
Nov 12, 2019 11:46:10   #
Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay
 
Elaine2025 wrote:
Post number three today from whacked out politicususa. What a surprise Krackhead. Send it to your people in kanuckistan, they believe anything.


You never get anything right, take a look at the date, it's yesterday's date.

Reply
Nov 12, 2019 11:50:50   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
Kraken wrote:
You never get anything right, take a look at the date, it's yesterday's date.


Still an ignorant post form your favorite ignorant paper little kanuck from kanuckistan.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 2
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
The Attic
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.