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Model Train Photography
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Nov 9, 2019 23:46:04   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
svo84 wrote:
Try this article. It is comprehensive and should be a good help
https://mrr.trains.com/-/media/Files/PDF/2013/MODELERSGUIDETODIGITALPHOTOGRAPHY1.pdf

Absolutely agree with UHH members svo84 and E.L. Shapiro that this article is one of the finest, most comprehensive ever written on the subject. Brooks Stover clearly knows what he is talking about as a master modeler. His article includes literally hundreds of specific ideas for obtaining great model images.

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Nov 10, 2019 00:58:23   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
tnste wrote:
You gave me lots to think about. Thank you for the information. I have heard a lot about focus stacking but have not tried it as yet and really dont know how to apply that technique. You suggested to shoot from a greater distance. What lens do you suggest I use.? I would guess not a wide angle. I am thinking of my 24-105L lens with the 6DII body. I read if you use flash to use it overhead off camera and set the camera white balance for flash or tungsten. I was planning to take a tripod but that may not work if there are large crowds.
You gave me lots to think about. Thank you for th... (show quote)


The idea of backing away to a greater distance really depends on which lens you are using. Standing close with a wide angle or backing away with a longer lens will result in essentially the same depth of field if the framing ends up being the same. The idea is not to try to fill the frame with your desired final image, but instead to leave a substantial amount of space around it, then crop to your desired composition. You will give away some resolution, but gain depth of field. So, just as a suggestion, if 105mm gives you the desired composition, stand on that spot, but zoom to 35mm. Then crop your photograph to the desired composition. You will gain a significant amount of depth of field. You would want to use your highest resolution camera for this, so that you will have the greatest amount of information left after cropping.

If you can make bounce flash work, you should be able to eliminate a lot of light fall off with distance. The problem I've always had in the exhibition halls where railroad meets are usually held is that the ceilings are so high (and usually painted black) that no light (certainly not a usable amount) comes back down onto your subject.

You may just have to try some things. I'd recommend your full frame camera and a good general purpose lens, like a 24 - 105mm.

Good luck. And rely on your club mates. Be willing to analyze and conquer the situations that you find. Have fun. And enjoy the models.

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Nov 10, 2019 01:06:31   #
tnste Loc: New Westminster, BC
 
larryepage wrote:
The idea of backing away to a greater distance really depends on which lens you are using. Standing close with a wide angle or backing away with a longer lens will result in essentially the same depth of field if the framing ends up being the same. The idea is not to try to fill the frame with your desired final image, but instead to leave a substantial amount of space around it, then crop to your desired composition. You will give away some resolution, but gain depth of field. So, just as a suggestion, if 105mm gives you the desired composition, stand on that spot, but zoom to 35mm. Then crop your photograph to the desired composition. You will gain a significant amount of depth of field. You would want to use your highest resolution camera for this, so that you will have the greatest amount of information left after cropping.

If you can make bounce flash work, you should be able to eliminate a lot of light fall off with distance. The problem I've always had in the exhibition halls where railroad meets are usually held is that the ceilings are so high (and usually painted black) that no light (certainly not a usable amount) comes back down onto your subject.

You may just have to try some things. I'd recommend your full frame camera and a good general purpose lens, like a 24 - 105mm.

Good luck. And rely on your club mates. Be willing to analyze and conquer the situations that you find. Have fun. And enjoy the models.
The idea of backing away to a greater distance rea... (show quote)


I appreciate your comments. Thank you. I was going back and forth deciding on whether to take the 24-105 L lens or the Sigma 14-24 f2.8 wide angle lens. I will go with your suggestion and use the 24-105. That was my initial choice for the 6DII anyway. I might take the 14-24 just in case but feel uneasy changing lenses in a crowd.

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Nov 10, 2019 07:55:45   #
machia Loc: NJ
 
I experiment and take loads of shots.
I have gotten some amazing shots with a cellphone too in very tight areas. Cellphone cameras do have a purpose!
Try it.

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Nov 10, 2019 08:02:08   #
ngrea Loc: Sandy Spring, Maryland
 
A totally different approach, but one I use a lot when I’m working on my N-scale model RR: if they will allow you close enough, use your cell phone. I “walk” my cell phone through the layout upside down so the lens is down near the ground sometimes I do it on video to get the feel of being a scale size person moving through the landscape. Other times I do still photos
to see how the object or vignette I’m working on looks from all sides.
The cell phone can be used in spaces way too small for a DSL.

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Nov 10, 2019 08:18:46   #
wrangler5 Loc: Missouri
 
I would be amazed if you're allowed to take a tripod into a train show, and even if they allowed it you would be an enormous hindrance to everyone else who was attending. Especially since it is your first time at one and you sound like you would be trying to figure out what to do. If you are taking public transit to the show, what is your plan if the folks at the door say "no tripods allowed inside?"

If it's anything like the shows I have attended there will be shoulder to shoulder crowds moving up and down the aisles. Even a large camera bag will be an impediment. Larger layouts are usually around the edges, but if they are any good there will be crowds around them as close as the setup allows. If you back up to get a wider shot somebody will step in front of you to get a better view themselves - remember, they paid for their ticket too.

So unless you get in before the public and have free access alone with no crowds, you will not have the opportunity to take the kind of photos you see in the model magazines. Especially if this is your first time trying to deal with the light and depth of focus issues that come with "interesting" model shots. I think the appropriate camera for your first show will be the smallest and lightest one you can hand hold at relatively low shutter speeds. I was a Nikon shooter and so don't know your Canon equipment, but the Lumix sounds like the one to take.

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Nov 10, 2019 08:21:04   #
mizzee Loc: Boston,Ma
 
Definitely check with the show about tripod use. I doubt it will be allowed.

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Nov 10, 2019 08:28:20   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Try to narrow the composition choices down a bit, broad layout or detail or some of both. Each will require different lighting approaches. You could do flash for close in shots, even some off camera hand off to the side with cord release or wireless option. For broad shots, you could try some on-camera flash to see what kind of coverage you could get, maybe even some bounce if the ceiling isn’t too high. If it’s a club event a tripod might not work too well in a crowd. And shoot in RAW. You will have more options in PP to adjust white balance and exposure errors.

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Nov 10, 2019 08:47:37   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
tnste wrote:
I am attending a model train show tomorrow as part of my photography club outing. The show will be indoors but I understand the lighting is not bright so either you need to crank up the ISO or use a tripod (was planning on using the manfrotto beefree if necessary). I checked some tutorials on taking photos of model train layouts and it is strongly recommended to use a tripod. Some opinions recommend using manual settings (shutter speed and aperture) and to use a high aperture setting (f32, f22). Others say AF is okay. I have three cameras and wondering the best camera and lens combination; either of the following: Canon 7DII with a 15-85 mm lens or 24-105 f4 L lens; Canon 6DII with a 24-105 f4 L lens or Lumix FZ1000 24-400 mm lens. I thought going with my 6DII full frame camera would be the best choice but I read not necessarily so for layout photography. My FZ1000 is the lightest and that of using that but the highest aperture setting is one f8. Is that aperture small enough to get the depth of field required? One tutorial suggested to use an off camera flash but others said no on camera flash did not mention about external flash. It was suggested to use a low ISO (100), f22-32 (for full frame especially), but nothing said about what metering to use (evaluative, spot, partial, center weight average). Is my Manfrotto beefee tripod okay for the 6DII and 7DII? I have two other tripods but they are heavier and since I am taking transit to go to the show I want to take the lightest tripod I can. I am not even sure if tripods are allowed at the show. If not then I would probably go with the 6DII as I believe it has the best low light capability. Would appreciate comments and suggestions from the UHH forum.
I am attending a model train show tomorrow as part... (show quote)


Wow, why does this sound so familiar? Seems different person, slightly different question. Perhaps a Model Trainer would write up a Tutorial for model train photography. Seems common enough and complex enough that it requires specific techniques as the OP requested.

(Note, I only read the first few posts / replies to this thread so others may have answered the OP's Q in detail.)

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Nov 10, 2019 08:55:02   #
russelray Loc: La Mesa CA
 
tnste wrote:
I am attending a model train show tomorrow as part of my photography club outing. The show will be indoors but I understand the lighting is not bright so either you need to crank up the ISO or use a tripod (was planning on using the manfrotto beefree if necessary). I checked some tutorials on taking photos of model train layouts and it is strongly recommended to use a tripod. Some opinions recommend using manual settings (shutter speed and aperture) and to use a high aperture setting (f32, f22). Others say AF is okay. I have three cameras and wondering the best camera and lens combination; either of the following: Canon 7DII with a 15-85 mm lens or 24-105 f4 L lens; Canon 6DII with a 24-105 f4 L lens or Lumix FZ1000 24-400 mm lens. I thought going with my 6DII full frame camera would be the best choice but I read not necessarily so for layout photography. My FZ1000 is the lightest and that of using that but the highest aperture setting is one f8. Is that aperture small enough to get the depth of field required? One tutorial suggested to use an off camera flash but others said no on camera flash did not mention about external flash. It was suggested to use a low ISO (100), f22-32 (for full frame especially), but nothing said about what metering to use (evaluative, spot, partial, center weight average). Is my Manfrotto beefee tripod okay for the 6DII and 7DII? I have two other tripods but they are heavier and since I am taking transit to go to the show I want to take the lightest tripod I can. I am not even sure if tripods are allowed at the show. If not then I would probably go with the 6DII as I believe it has the best low light capability. Would appreciate comments and suggestions from the UHH forum.
I am attending a model train show tomorrow as part... (show quote)

As one who has been going to model train shows for 53 years, and currently goes to 6 model train shows a year, visits North America's largest model railroad museum once a week, and visits North America's largest outdoor garden railroad once a month, I think your answers are going to depend on a lot of things.

First, what kind of "model train" show is it? There are three: one where the model trains also include model train layouts and operating model trains; one where the show is about 90% static displays and model trains for sale, most still in the manufacturer's boxes; and one that is a combination of those two. The last one tends to be the largest. For the train shows that I go to here in California, Arizona, and Nevada, tripods are not allowed during the actual show hours because there just are too many people milling around, children included, and those tripod legs create a trip hazard for those looking at operating trains and not expecting such a trip hazard. Many probably don't even know what a tripod is so they are not looking for tripod legs. Children, especially, all excited about trains zooming around the tracks are not on the lookout for trip hazards.

Many shows provide a "photographers' hour" before or after the show hours where tripods are allowed and every effort is made by show organizers to help you get your best shots.

I have taken my best pictures using flash. I never use a tripod; I'm one of those anti-tripod folks in all my photography adventures, but I do take advantage of photographers' hours.

I would include a couple of model train pictures, but I'm a thousand miles from home, out chasing Union Pacific Railroad's historic operating steam locomotive, Big Boy #4014. Currently in Palestine, Texas.



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Nov 10, 2019 09:10:48   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Try a good cell phone and if it can shoot RAW consider that too. Lighting maybe a challenge but you can experiment with that. You would be surprised how many published model photos are taken with cell phones. They generally offer great depth of field.

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Nov 10, 2019 09:12:06   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
My mom lived in Palestine about 35 years ago. Was a MoPac town then if I recall...

russelray wrote:
As one who has been going to model train shows for 53 years, and currently goes to 6 model train shows a year, visits North America's largest model railroad museum once a week, and visits North America's largest outdoor garden railroad once a month, I think your answers are going to depend on a lot of things.

First, what kind of "model train" show is it? There are three: one where the model trains also include model train layouts and operating model trains; one where the show is about 90% static displays and model trains for sale, most still in the manufacturer's boxes; and one that is a combination of those two. The last one tends to be the largest. For the train shows that I go to here in California, Arizona, and Nevada, tripods are not allowed during the actual show hours because there just are too many people milling around, children included, and those tripod legs create a trip hazard for those looking at operating trains and not expecting such a trip hazard. Many probably don't even know what a tripod is so they are not looking for tripod legs. Children, especially, all excited about trains zooming around the tracks are not on the lookout for trip hazards.

Many shows provide a "photographers' hour" before or after the show hours where tripods are allowed and every effort is made by show organizers to help you get your best shots.

I have taken my best pictures using flash. I never use a tripod; I'm one of those anti-tripod folks in all my photography adventures, but I do take advantage of photographers' hours.

I would include a couple of model train pictures, but I'm a thousand miles from home, out chasing Union Pacific Railroad's historic operating steam locomotive, Big Boy #4014. Currently in Palestine, Texas.
As one who has been going to model train shows for... (show quote)

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Nov 10, 2019 09:43:02   #
Cookie223 Loc: New Jersey
 
rjaywallace wrote:
Tnste - It is unlikely that UHH members are just going to hand you the perfect photo. Some of the best model railroad photos I ever saw in the U.S. were published by amateur hobbyists in Model Railroader Magazine. And some were spectacularly amazing. I was a member of the NMRA and hosted the model railroad club at my high school. If this may be an on-going interest for you, I strongly encourage you to set up a dialogue with subscribers to the UHH Trains section. You might enjoy the comradery and learn things along the way.
Tnste - It is unlikely that UHH members are just g... (show quote)


👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

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Nov 10, 2019 10:05:11   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
svo84 wrote:
Try this article. It is comprehensive and should be a good help

https://mrr.trains.com/-/media/Files/PDF/2013/MODELERSGUIDETODIGITALPHOTOGRAPHY1.pdf


I'm not a model railroader and have never even owned a model train, but the few times I've seen operating model railroads I've been impressed by the craftsmanship and fanatical attention to detail on display. I like train travel and have taken trains in Burma, China, Europe and the good ol' U.S.A. I even traveled overnight via steam locomotive from Paris to Berlin. I read this article to the end even though I have no plans to photograph model railroads. The sample pictures and captions are wonderful.

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Nov 10, 2019 11:05:05   #
JBGLADSTONE Loc: Oregon
 
Just an idea.

Why don't you set up a few small objects in a light control setting. ( I have a dinning room table with a chandelier with variable light control). Then experiment with your lens & cameras, so you will have some background to help make it easier for you to adapt and obtain quality results.

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