Auto Horizon Feature? Some cameras make available a digital level to help the shooter level the camera; I have that feature on my Sony A6500 and I like it. However, when shooting with...

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

Some cameras make available a digital level to help the shooter level the camera; I have that feature on my Sony A6500 and I like it. However, when shooting with a hand-held camera hands shake and there may be other issues that distract me from checking the level at the last millisecond before releasing the shutter.

So far as I am aware, my camera does not record the status of its level measurements with the image, but it occurs to me that if it did so then an editor could use this data to accurately correct for the actual horizon. I have to wonder whether any camera stores this data with its images and if so, whether any editors can make use of the data.

Leitz Loc: Solms

pecohen wrote:

Some cameras make available a digital level to hel... (show quote)

I believe that most editors would just bin a crooked photo and look for one taken by a competent photographer.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Are you having trouble with your editor's straightening tool? I'm asking in order to understand the broader issue. In PS Elements you can rotate by degree (insert a number), or with the tool itself. In my Chromebook's online app, there are grid lines to follow.

DWU2 Loc: Phoenix Arizona area

Leitz wrote:

I believe that most editors would just bin a crooked photo and look for one taken by a competent photographer.

Perhaps you speak in jest, but I believe the OP was referring to photo editing software.

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

Linda From Maine wrote:

Are you having trouble with your editor's straightening tool? I'm asking in order to understand the broader issue. In PS Elements you can rotate by degree (insert a number), or with the tool itself. In my Chromebook's online app, there are grid lines to follow.

Most editors have a straightening tool and pretty much they do a fine job of rotating the image however they are asked to do so. But let's take your suggestion as an example - one that asks you to specify how many degrees to rotate the image. How do you know that number? With many images, that simply requires a best guess.

To rephrase my question, let me first remind you that my camera knew how many degrees I was off the horizontal when I took the picture (and in fact my camera clearly could report not only the error of rotation but also the error in pitch). My question then is why a camera cannot pass along that information so that an image editor can use it when requested to do so? That would eliminate the guessing. Actually my question was whether any cameras do actually pass along this information and whether any image editors are built to take advantage of that information.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Write up your proposed technical standard for capturing the data into the EXIF, then get the idea accepted as an industry standard. You might find the customer-service email addresses for your software and contact them with your question and / or proposed standard. Until then, LR has an auto-level function. Agreed, you have to tell the software to perform this update. You might be able to trigger this update via a preset. That's something you could investigate after sending your emails.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

pecohen wrote:

Most editors have a straightening tool and pretty ... (show quote)

I knew I was complicating your straight-forward and well written opening

I guess that is because my experience is that if I need to adjust in my editor, it is obvious to my eye what is straight (no "best guess" needed) in a simple composition. In the not-so-simple category, there is another current topic (about rule of thirds) in which it was pointed out that the shoreline is receding from viewer. In a case like that, I can understand where the feature you mention would be helpful.

I'll keep watching to learn also. Thanks!

Leitz Loc: Solms

DWU2 wrote:

Perhaps you speak in jest, but I believe the OP was referring to photo editing software.

It has been my experience that it is unrealistic to expect an editor to make technical corrections. That is the responsibility of the photographer who submits the image to the editor for publication.

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

pecohen wrote:

Most editors have a straightening tool and pretty ... (show quote)

I think you are suggesting;
1, that our camera records if it was level and if not how much off it was when the shutter was tripped.
2, That editing software be written to correct any leveling errors if we “push the right button”. I like that idea. A LOT!

In the meantime, while I am not familiar with the workings of PS Elements I understand it is very similar to Photoshop. Just in case, Photoshop has a ruler tool that you start at one end of an object and drag to the other. The read out will tell you the length AND THE ANGLE OF THAT LINE. If Elements also has this tool getting an object accurately level is a piece of cake.

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

CHG_CANON wrote:

Write up your proposed technical standard for capturing the data into the EXIF, then get the idea accepted as an industry standard. You might find the customer-service email addresses for your software and contact them with your question and / or proposed standard. Until then, LR has an auto-level function. Agreed, you have to tell the software to perform this update. You might be able to trigger this update via a preset. That's something you could investigate after sending your emails.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't want this correction to be applied automatically to every image; there are times when you might actually prefer the image to be at a slant and certainly many instances where the pitch of the camera is intentionally off.

The auto-straighten feature in LR is an interesting example of how it should be available, however. I've often wondered how LR makes that judgement and when I used it I did not always agree with the results.

As for writing up a proposal, there is a chicken-and-egg issue. If no camera records this information then no editor will support it. But without a demand for the feature from the software side or from the consumer side, camera manufacturers are not likely to introduce the feature.

I did look into passing along the suggestion to Sony, but I quickly found out they have a policy of not accepting or considering suggestions for features from the public.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

As I used to tell our project teams: the unreported problem doesn't exist.

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

Rich1939 wrote:

I think you are suggesting; br 1, that our camera... (show quote)

Thank you for that clear statement. It is an accurate reflection of what I was trying to suggest.

From the comments I've read, I am tempted to conclude that this is not something Canon or Nikon is doing already.

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

Linda From Maine wrote:

I knew I was complicating your straight-forward an... (show quote)

The other day I put a picture up on the wall. When my wife came into the room she said it was crooked and I straightened it out according to her instructions. Then I stood back from it and to my eye it was now crooked. So I went to the garage and brought back a level and adjusted the picture to that standard. We both thought that looked wrong (probably the nearby window trim was a bit off).

The point is that what looks level is not necessarily level; we may decide to go with what looks right anyway but at least it is comforting to know you deliberately made the choice.

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

pecohen wrote:

The other day I put a picture up on the wall. Whe... (show quote)

When we look at a hanging picture don't we subconsciously compare it's top edge to the wall/ceiling line (or floor, door etc). I always thought I had a good eye for level. Nope! but rather a good feeling for when two lines run parallel or square. Most of us are blessed that way so when we are looking at an image if the main lines don't "fit" correctly the image takes us out of our comfort zone. When there are two strong lines diverging like a ridge line and cloud bottoms, it's time to reach for the Dramamine (or the Buffalo Trace)

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

pecohen wrote:

Some cameras make available a digital level to hel... (show quote)

The best thing for the hands shaking the camera is IBIS. With IBIS, one could press the shutter half way, the image would stabilize, one could check the level, and then shoot. The only problem here is the best IBIS is in the Olympus and Panasonic cameras. Check for IBIS coming probably soon in your brand. Do not settle for less than 4.5 stops.