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Aug 23, 2019 15:08:09   #
DVZ Loc: Littleton CO
 
I use ACDSee and if I upgraded with every new release it would cost as much as a subscription so it's not the cost and I've nothing against Adobe they have great products, an industry standard. However, if you have done a lot of raw development and change raw developers it's nice to have the old software to readjust those files if you ever want to. At some point, though as operating systems and hardware advance it will become obsolete. Even though the upgrades are usually very small and incremental and not that significant to me I still look forward to playing with new stuff.

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Aug 23, 2019 16:50:03   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
Gene51 wrote:
I've been making this point for years ever since the industry started moving away from perpetual licenses and charging for upgrades and ongoing maintenance.

From a business point of view, the subscription works for all stakeholders - the company can focus its efforts on software development and away from manufacturing, shipping, returns, maintaining inventory and all the costs associated with a physical product. The cost of ongoing support is bundled into the monthly price, as are the upgrades - so customers see a consistent monthly expense instead of getting surprises. Also, customers are all on the same version, more or less, and publishers don't have to support versions of software that are 5 versions old on outdated hardware and operating systems. After using Adobe software since 1993, I can say without hesitation that the subscription has been the best thing I've seen from that company in a really long time - along with all the benefits. It certainly beats the $1000 charge per version, and the $300 cost of upgrading from a previous version.
I've been making this point for years ever since t... (show quote)


Yes.

And that's why this model is becoming nearly universal across so many industries and specialties. The "lifetime purchase" (or what people THOUGHT was a purchase...) model was useful in early days to get people to adopt this newfangled computer stuff called "software", but it is ultimately unsustainable, I think, in most business and consumer applications. I might be wrong, but the market seems to be going this way.

Andy

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Aug 23, 2019 18:34:37   #
AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio
 
lwerthe1mer wrote:
There has been lots of discussion on UHH about getting away from Lightroom/Photoship's monthly charges. I moved to ON1 Photo Camera Raw several months ago and have been extremely pleased with the program. ON1 announced a 2020 version of the software recently, and all existing users will be required to pay $79 for the new program.

I can afford the price and will purchase the upgrade, but it seems like ongoing charges exist in a variety of forms.


That is true. I have ON1 and after I got there program they keep coming out with updates, some of which are free, but some are add-ons. No matter what, it seems like there are always going to be "Up-Grade" costs. It is non-ending.

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Aug 23, 2019 18:39:22   #
AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio
 
Ted d wrote:
When On1 comes out with a completely new program there is a charge. However all the upgrades are free as well as all the tuterals, free presets and LUTS that come down through out the year.


Are you sure? Looks like "Up-Dates" are free, but "Up-Grades" cost money. If you are already you can get a discount on an "Up-Grade", but it will still cost some, just not full price.

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Aug 24, 2019 15:28:54   #
SteveLew Loc: Sugar Land, TX
 
I subscribed to Adobe Photo Shop and Lightroom for years. Dropped Adobe and moved to On 1 and am happy with On1. I upgraded from 2018 to 2019. With the introduction of On 1 2020 I plan of staying with On1 2019 and not upgrade since often these upgrades only introduce new often not too usable upgrades.

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Aug 24, 2019 18:19:04   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
AndyH wrote:
It's the way that virtually all software will be sold in the future, like it or not. Virtually 100% of my company's business software is now on a subscription model with monthly or annual subscription fees. ...

Unless you are hopelessly addicted to Adobe, it's certainly not the way that software has to be sold.

One of the nice things about Capture One Pro is that it is offered as a purchase with a perpetual license or as a subscription. Adobe wants to force you into the subscription option. The Capture One subscription is $15/month and some might think it's worth it. But you can buy the program and upgrade every two years to bring the cost down to about $5/month.

The other significant difference is that CO lets you use a catalog (like Lightroom) or you can use sessions and let your file manager handle the organization. Most other software let you use the file manager and this makes archiving and backup a lot easier.

ON1 is less expensive than either the Adobe or the Capture One option and if you upgrade every two years that's going to cost $3.33 per month.

We know that, "The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance." Read the release notes. If you don't see something in them that you absolutely have to have, you don't need to upgrade at all. I am still using MS Office Pro 2010 (it includes MS Access) and I doubt that I will ever need to upgrade.

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Aug 24, 2019 18:49:13   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
selmslie wrote:
Unless you are hopelessly addicted to Adobe, it's certainly not the way that software has to be sold.

One of the nice things about Capture One Pro is that it is offered as a purchase with a perpetual license or as a subscription. Adobe wants to force you into the subscription option. The Capture One subscription is $15/month and some might think it's worth it. But you can buy the program and upgrade every two years to bring the cost down to about $5/month.

The other significant difference is that CO lets you use a catalog (like Lightroom) or you can use sessions and let your file manager handle the organization. Most other software let you use the file manager and this makes archiving and backup a lot easier.

ON1 is less expensive than either the Adobe or the Capture One option and if you upgrade every two years that's going to cost $3.33 per month.

We know that, "The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance." Read the release notes. If you don't see something in them that you absolutely have to have, you don't need to upgrade at all. I am still using MS Office Pro 2010 (it includes MS Access) and I doubt that I will ever need to upgrade.
Unless you are hopelessly addicted to Adobe, it's ... (show quote)


I prefer the Adobe package but I’m not so wedded that I wouldn’t be able to switch if the cost got too high.

We had to ditch Office 2010 on our last remaining computers at work because it had major security holes. I don’t want to have to worry about that on my laptop, and seven bucks a month is well within my budget. I understand why many don’t like that subscription model, but it’s not likely to go away. Just makes too much economic sense.

Andy

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Aug 24, 2019 18:56:35   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
AndyH wrote:
I prefer the Adobe package but I’m not so wedded that I wouldn’t be able to switch if the cost got too high.

We had to ditch Office 2010 on our last remaining computers at work because it had major security holes. I don’t want to have to worry about that on my laptop, and seven bucks a month is well within my budget. I understand why many don’t like that subscription model, but it’s not likely to go away. Just makes too much economic sense.

Andy

I can understand why a company might be nervous about security risks. But an individual is not much of a target.

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Aug 24, 2019 19:02:54   #
DVZ Loc: Littleton CO
 
I doubt it will go away with Adobe but they've gotten so much crap for it and much of the competition has taken advantage of it that probably a lot of them will not adopt this model. Even though if you buy every upgrade of non-subscription software you'll be near the same price. We use a lot of software in my office and me personally and not very many of them are subscription except the virus and malware software. Just saying they are all going that direction don't make it so.

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Aug 24, 2019 19:33:43   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
selmslie wrote:
I can understand why a company might be nervous about security risks. But an individual is not much of a target.


If an individual uses Office to access company servers, or their own bank accounts via email, it’s still a big risk. We had a $30,000 hack/theft last month and would have lost another $30k had I not been using the latest version of Office. The leak occurred on the CEO’s laptop, while being used on a hotel network. He was using Office 2010.

I caught it when my Outlook reported that a new inbox rule had been set for his mailbox. After $12k worth of security forensics, the resulting report required that we all go to the latest subscription version if we want to keep our cyber policy.

He also has had to change all of his personal accounts- the Nigerian hackers have his passwords and security answers. I don’t want to ever go through that again - already been there from the Experian hack. Fortunately, I bank with a small local bank, and they restored all my money in less than 24 hours.

I’m not using anything but the latest subscription versions on any software that can jeopardize my security.

Andy

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Aug 24, 2019 19:39:51   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
DVZ wrote:
We use a lot of software in my office and me personally and not very many of them are subscription except the virus and malware software. Just saying they are all going that direction don't make it so.


We use AutoCAD, Office, and proprietary programs for lending, government regulatory compliance reporting, property management, and construction spec writing.

All are now subscription based, as is our anti virus and malware program. I’m sure other industries may differ.

Andy

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Aug 24, 2019 19:51:26   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
AndyH wrote:
..., while being used on a hotel network. He was using Office 2010.

I caught it when my Outlook reported that a new inbox rule had been set for his mailbox. ...

Another reason why I stopped using Outlook 15 years ago. Since I’m retired I have only myself to look out for.

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Aug 24, 2019 20:40:34   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
selmslie wrote:
Another reason why I stopped using Outlook 15 years ago. Since I’m retired I have only myself to look out for.


Good choice in your circumstances.

The sophistication of these spear-phishers is amazing. I have heard of several individuals and small businesses who have fallen victim since this hurricane hit us.

Andy

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Aug 24, 2019 20:50:46   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
AndyH wrote:
Good choice in your circumstances.

The sophistication of these spear-phishers is amazing. I have heard of several individuals and small businesses who have fallen victim since this hurricane hit us.

Andy

If we can get the robocalls to stop I will be even happier.

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Aug 24, 2019 20:58:06   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
selmslie wrote:
If we can get the robocalls to stop I will be even happier.


Hell yeah!

I still don’t understand all of the hangup calls I get.

Andy

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