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Crop factor in calculations
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Aug 23, 2019 21:31:08   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
I thought I had a good handle on DOF as a zone of acceptable sharpness, but after reading all the posts, I am questioning what I thought I knew and think I need an adult beverage to calm my nerves.

I just keep repeating to myself: A larger aperture gives a shallow DOF and a small aperture provides a deeper DOF. The shorter the distance from lens to subject the shorter the DOF. Longer distances increase DOF. At a given distance to the subject, a longer focal length gives a more shallow DOF. The acceptable DOF usually starts 1/3 in front of the subject and 2/3 behind, but the longer the focal length the more even it is.

I hope no one posts about hyperfocal distance. I might have to take a run to a liquor store.

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Aug 23, 2019 22:04:46   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
photogeneralist wrote:
50mm x 1.6 = 80mm. The 80mm result gives the effective focal length.

Or put another way, the 50mm lens equates to an 80mm lens in focal length when used on a cropped sensor camera.




Let me jump in here.
Folks are confusing focal length with angle of view. With any given lens focal length, the angle of view comes smaller or larger following the size of the sensor. The sensor incepts a smaller or larger part of a lenses projected image depending on the size of the sensor For ease of understanding we (inaccurately) say that a 100 mm lens on a 1.5 crop sensor camera is equal to a 150 mm lesson a full frame camera. But in truth , only the angle of view is equal. The depth of field is not changed by the size of the sensor onto which a lens is focusing it's light. The dof of the center portion of a full frame camera (all the things being equal) should be the same as the DOF of a crop sensor image. (the crop sensor due to it's smaller size intercepts a smaller angle of view is all) A 50 mm lens at any equal f stop will have the same DOF regardless of the size of the sensor on which it's focusing the light.
Noted expert Tony Northup has a video in which he argues the crop factor also has an effect on f/stop. I did not follow his geometric logic on that argument though.
50mm x 1.6 = 80mm. The 80mm result gives the effec... (show quote)


Tony is actually right. If you owned a full frame, APS-C, and Micro 4/3 camera as he does, and I once did, you would see it. The 2X crop factor on m43 forces you to use a SHORTER focal length for the same angle of view that you would have on a larger sensor. At any given actual aperture, the DOF is greater on the shorter lens.

So what Tony is saying is that if you use a 25mm lens on m43 and a 50mm lens on full frame, at the same distance, you will have the same field of view and the same exposure, but two stops MORE noise, two stops LESS dynamic range, and two stops MORE DOF. To equalize DOF in such a situation, you need a very fast lens on m43. That's why Voigtlander makes four f/0.95 primes for m43...

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Aug 24, 2019 07:01:57   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
rehess wrote:
Then why do the calculators include Focal Length and Subject Distance??

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dof-calculator.htm


Because when you plug in focal length and subject distance the program calculates magnification, and uses the calculation, along with the circle of confusion size (implies the sensor size) and aperture to produce DoF guidelines.

Other factors not taken into consideration that also affect DoF include viewer's eyesight, viewing distance and others. The eyesight and viewing distance are important because poorer eyesight and greater viewing distances will give the impression of a sharper image with greater depth of field.

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Aug 24, 2019 07:09:18   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Strodav wrote:
I thought I had a good handle on DOF as a zone of acceptable sharpness, but after reading all the posts, I am questioning what I thought I knew and think I need an adult beverage to calm my nerves.

I just keep repeating to myself: A larger aperture gives a shallow DOF and a small aperture provides a deeper DOF. The shorter the distance from lens to subject the shorter the DOF. Longer distances increase DOF. At a given distance to the subject, a longer focal length gives a more shallow DOF. The acceptable DOF usually starts 1/3 in front of the subject and 2/3 behind, but the longer the focal length the more even it is.

I hope no one posts about hyperfocal distance. I might have to take a run to a liquor store.
I thought I had a good handle on DOF as a zone of ... (show quote)


You had it almost correct - DoF is not always 1/3 in front and 2/3 behind. Look at a DoF calculator and plug in different apertures and distances - you'll be surprised at how wrong that assumption can be.

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Aug 24, 2019 11:49:31   #
Elfman9
 
Thanks for all of the great tips. I have been using FotoTool on my Android phone. I see there is a camera selection in it. I just wasnt sure if it took that into account or not. I have been thinking about switching to Photopill and wondered if it was worth it.

Thanks again!

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Aug 25, 2019 02:26:05   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
Ten years of 2 x Crop and I came to the conclusion that with sufficient mpx the requirement would be wider angle zooms, rather than longer, making up for the reduced FOV.

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Aug 25, 2019 13:57:06   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
Gene51 wrote:
You had it almost correct - DoF is not always 1/3 in front and 2/3 behind. Look at a DoF calculator and plug in different apertures and distances - you'll be surprised at how wrong that assumption can be.


I did as you suggest and built a spreadsheet checking DOF in front to behind at 5, 10, 20, 30 meters subject distance; f/4, f/5.6, f/8 apertures; 14, 24, 35, 50, 70, 100, 200, 300, 400, and 500mm focal lengths. In all cases, the ratio of in front to behind focus distances increased with focal length towards 1/2 front 1/2 behind. The assumption of 1/3 in front and 2/3 behind is a bit more complicated, but is not a bad assumption at the subject distance for which we would choose a focal length. To be more specific the 1/3 to 2/3 assumption holds well at 70-100mm focal lengths at 30m subject distance; 50-70mm focal lengths at 20m subject distance; 35-50mm focal lengths at 20m subject distance; 24-35mm focal lengths at 5 m subject distance.

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