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Why is 35mm format called Full Frame?
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Aug 20, 2019 19:17:13   #
Quixdraw Loc: x
 
JohnR wrote:
Cold wet & windy - Melbourne Australia


Ah, I understand - hate to miss a photo day as well.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:19:13   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmalarz wrote:
The FX sensors are, essentially, 24x36mm. Full Frame. That's why. Anyone whose done any digital work will understand someone who says full frame as meaning exactly that. It's the crop sensor crowd that has myriads of sizes with which to contend.
--Bob



Exactly there must be a point of reference.
PS, larger than 24x36 was called large format generally in the recent film days.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:27:36   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
JohnR wrote:
The only reason I can come up with is that in 1959 Olympus came out with what they called a Half Frame camera. This used the same 35mm film cassettes readily available but gave twice the shots i.e. 48 shots on a 24 shot cassette. It also resulted in a smaller camera body and lenses than the usual 35mm cameras. Strangely though 35mm film cameras were NEVER called Full Frame cameras as far as I can find out.

Also in the days of film photography - YES there were indeed frames in both movie and still cameras – the frame produced a good clear sharp border around the 36mm x 24mm images and the half frame 24mm x 18mm Olympus versions.

So why, I ask, are present day 35mm format digital cameras called Full Frame when there is NOT a frame anywhere within their innards full, half, or otherwise? Nor are there any frames in APS-C or M4/3 or any other digital cameras! Even smart phones don’t have frames.

There’s no logical reason for it as far as I can ascertain but my guess is that the advertising media are the culprits as using the word Full in an advert implies very strongly that one can get nothing better! The same issue has occurred with monitors and TV’s with the media still promoting Full HD as the best one can get.

So so wrong and in no way beneficial in any way shape or form to any aspiring photographer – how often do new users ask questions about full frame/crop sensor etc as they are confused by all the meaningless terms. (Crop sensor another misused and misconstrued term used mainly to denigrate and demean smaller sensor cameras! – but I won’t start on that bag of worms today!)

Anyway – Photographers of the World – please start calling a spade a spade as it will help promote photography as the precise technology it is.

Cheers JohnR
The only reason I can come up with is that in 1959... (show quote)


Convention and usage, the language changes, standards change etc.
And now it is a recognized convention in extremely widespread general use.

What would you call Full Frame?
8x10", 20"x24" - both have been made.
The largest in use now a custom camera using 4.5'x6' sheet film?
The custom camera built for a railroad in 1899/1900 to picture one of their trains 4.5'x8' glass plate?
Or the Air Force hangar turned into a pin hole camera with the image on heavy cloth covered in light sensitive chemicals to produce a 32'x111' image?

It is just a term, so long as everyone understands that Full Frame digital is the size of a 35 mm negative. And the next size(s) up are called "medium" because they are the size of medium format film from the days when 35 mm was small format.

Canon's largest CMOS digital sensor for scientific and industrial use is 20x20 cm. and the largest digital camera made is 8"x10" and built to order at only $106,000.
Then there is the custom made camera being built into an observatory in Chile that will be 189 16mp CCD sensors (3200MP) mounted to produce one HUGE sensor. The camera is a bit over 5'x8'.

I would suggest you just accept and use the common terminology.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:27:41   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
JohnR wrote:


So why, I ask, are present day 35mm format digital cameras called Full Frame when there is NOT a frame anywhere within their innards full, half, or otherwise? Nor are there any frames in APS-C or M4/3 or any other digital cameras! Even smart phones don’t have frames.

There’s no logical reason for it as far as I can ascertain but my guess is that the advertising media are the culprits as using the word Full in an advert implies very strongly that one can get nothing better! The same issue has occurred with monitors and TV’s with the media still promoting Full HD as the best one can get.


br br So why, I ask, are present day 35mm format... (show quote)


The early digital cameras were what we now call crop sensor cameras. 35mm was the most popular film size for many years. So when bigger sensors came out they made them the same size most photographers were familiar with. Somebody decided to call the Full Frame and it stuck. Most people understand what it means today, even if they never shot film.

Plus there were a number of film cameras known as half frame.
https://www.pinterest.com/dmitrizzle/half-frame-film-cameras/


The logic is simple --It Works! If you changed it to something else folks would think, Oh yeah --- he means full frame! Nobody should rock the boat without good reason. So far I haven't seen one.


---

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Aug 20, 2019 19:28:11   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
JohnR wrote:
Measuring car engine power in Horsepower provided an approximate equivalence of the pulling power of the engine compared to what one could expect from an average horse! The term "Full Frame" not only does not provide any equivalence to anything else its also erroneous in that it implies there's nothing more available as its already FULL! Are we hiding medium and large format sensors so as not to cause a conflict
Measuring car engine power in Horsepower provided ... (show quote)


What size was a movie frame in Hollywood for film? And I don't mean 8 or Super 8.

Yes, for this discussion, medium and large formats are not included.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:28:54   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Architect1776 wrote:

Exactly there must be a point of reference.
PS, larger than 24x36 was called large format generally in the recent film days.


120/220 (6x6 cm) was called medium format. 4x5 inches and up was the smallest large format

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Aug 20, 2019 19:30:09   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
robertjerl wrote:
120/220 (6x6 cm was called medium format. 4x5 inches and up was the smallest large format


Small large format, I like that.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:31:05   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
JohnR wrote:
I asked "Why is 35mm format called Full Frame" I know exactly how large the sensor/film format is - there is simply no logical reason to call it full frame.


And no logical reason for you be so upset about it.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:32:34   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
Architect1776 wrote:

Exactly there must be a point of reference.
PS, larger than 24x36 was called large format generally in the recent film days.


Hi, beg to differ 12"x10" & 6"x4" were large format, 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7 cm on 120,220 & 620 paper backed films were medium format. 35mm was considered small format. I have used (shot/developed and printed) all of these bar the enormous 12x10 in my work (long past)

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Aug 20, 2019 19:33:39   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
JohnR wrote:
Cold wet & windy - Melbourne Australia


Oh, must be stress and fluid imbalance in your body caused by living your whole life upside down.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:33:41   #
Bill P
 
35mm Movie film started out as what we would have called half frame, like the Olympus Pen, Later cameras were built for wide screen that shot larger frames lengthwise, something like a Hasselblad xPan. Then, there is 70mm movie film, for high quality widescreen, again crosswise on 70mm wide film. And don't forget Cinerama, three cameras and three projectors synced together.

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Aug 20, 2019 19:34:36   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
robertjerl wrote:
And no logical reason for you be so upset about it.


Of course there's a logical reason to be upset by it - I'm a perfectionist (or pretend to be )

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Aug 20, 2019 19:37:06   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
robertjerl wrote:
Oh, must be stress and fluid imbalance in your body caused by living your whole life upside down.


Sadly only 5/7 of it upside down

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Aug 20, 2019 19:40:51   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Longshadow wrote:
Small large format, I like that.


Yeah, sort of like if you were the smallest elephant in the world. You would still be large to a human.

Once at the Los Angeles Zoo I heard a young lady say "Oh, look at the cute itty-bitty baby elephant!" Her friend said "No elephant is itty-bitty! Some just aren't as big."

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Aug 20, 2019 19:42:25   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
robertjerl wrote:
Yeah, sort of like if you were the smallest elephant in the world. You would still be large to a human.

Once at the Los Angeles Zoo I heard a young lady say "Oh, look at the cute itty-bitty baby elephant!" Her friend said "No elephant is itty-bitty! Some just aren't as big."



Smart kid!

---

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