Histograms (Page 3): It's hiding stealthfully in the deepest dark shadows. --Bob...

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

It's hiding stealthfully in the deepest dark shadows.
--Bob

selmslie wrote:

I understand the technique.

But where’s the noise in broad daylight?

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

rmalarz wrote:

It's hiding stealthfully in the deepest dark shadows.
--Bob

Try and find some noise in the images I just took in broad daylight of the Fernandina Beach Marina Repairs. Viewing them at 200% the noise is virtually invisible. They were all shot with aperture priority and about a stop darker than Sunny 16.

Imagine what I could have accomplished with an APS-C or full frame sensor. ETTR/EBTR would have been a waste of time and effort.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I'm not sure about your obsession with noise. My comment which inspired your noise reply was in relation to more precise tonal placement using ETTR/EBTR techniques.
--Bob

selmslie wrote:

Try and find some noise in the images I just took in broad daylight of the Fernandina Beach Marina Repairs. Viewing them at 200% the noise is virtually invisible. They were all shot with aperture priority and about a stop darker than Sunny 16.

Imagine what I could have accomplished with an APS-C or full frame sensor. ETTR/EBTR would have been a waste of time and effort.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

rmalarz wrote:

I'm not sure about your obsession with noise. My comment which inspired your noise reply was in relation to more precise tonal placement using ETTR/EBTR techniques.
--Bob

I’m certainly not obsessed with it. It’s just that you cited it as a reason to use ETTR/EBTR in broad daylight.

As for precise tonal placement, it seems to have happened very nicely in all five images without interference from anyone.

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

selmslie wrote:

That video is about post-processing, nothing to do with looking at the camera's histogram "when composing an image". Not many cameras show you a histogram before the image is captured.

Don't know about you, but the sign on the screen says Histogram. And, how else do you use a histogram other than "when composing an image"

My Nikon, Fuji and Sony cameras all show a live histogram when composing an image.

jldodge

In one of my CreativeLive videos, it was recommended to have the histogram "slightly" over exposed with digital cameras as that would give you the most information to use in post-processing. Again, that was assuming a RAW photo.

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

This Thomas Heaton video gives an excellent illustration of using the in-camera histogram for making a composition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zICzz8rW8M&t=34s

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

rgrenaderphoto wrote:

Don't know about you, but the sign on the screen says Histogram. And, how else do you use a histogram other than "when composing an image"

My Nikon, Fuji and Sony cameras all show a live histogram when composing an image.

My Df and D610 do not have a live histogram and neither does my Fuji X100T. I would not use the if they had them.

Only my Sony A7 II has a tiny live histogram but it's very small and relatively useless. The Zebra feature is all that I need to predict exposure issues.

They all show large histograms as well as blinkies after the image is captured.

Exposure determination is separate from composing. When I am looking through the viewfinder or at the LCD I am arranging the image's composition.

When I am working with the result on the computer, even if I crop or level, I am no longer composing. I am correcting errors in composition. I also have three separate histograms to help with the editing process.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

rgrenaderphoto wrote:

This Thomas Heaton video gives an excellent illustration of using the in-camera histogram for making a composition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zICzz8rW8M&t=34s

The histogram is helping to determine the exposure, not the composition. But as has been pointed out by several of us here, there are much easier ways to determine exposure.

For more about the meaning of "composition" see What is Composition in Photography?. The article states that First and foremost, “composition” describes placement of relative objects and elements in a work of art.

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

selmslie wrote:

The histogram is helping to determine the exposure, not the composition. But as has been pointed out by several of us here, there are much easier ways to determine exposure.

For more about the meaning of "composition" see What is Composition in Photography?. The article states that First and foremost, “composition” describes the placement of relative objects and elements in a work of art.

Ok, you are splitting hairs. A successful composition has balanced exposure to eliminate blown out or underexposed areas. It is much more than the placement of objects in the image. You can use the histogram in an application like Lightroom while in post-processing, but to a point. Areas that are blown out often cannot be corrected. Underexposure is a lot easier to rescue.

Like they say, "garbage in, garbage out."

srt101fan

selmslie wrote:

The histogram is helping to determine the exposure, not the composition. But as has been pointed out by several of us here, there are much easier ways to determine exposure.

For more about the meaning of "composition" see What is Composition in Photography?. The article states that First and foremost, “composition” describes placement of relative objects and elements in a work of art.

It's amazing how often the term "composition" is misused....

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

rgrenaderphoto wrote:

Don't know about you, but the sign on the screen says Histogram. And, how else do you use a histogram other than "when composing an image"

My Nikon, Fuji and Sony cameras all show a live histogram when composing an image.

Add Panasonic to that list...

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

rgrenaderphoto wrote:

Ok, you are splitting hairs. A successful composition has balanced exposure to eliminate blown out or underexposed areas. It is much more than the placement of objects in the image. You can use the histogram in an application like Lightroom while in post-processing, but to a point. Areas that are blown out often cannot be corrected. Underexposure is a lot easier to rescue.

Like they say, "garbage in, garbage out."

Knowing the correct meaning of the terms is not splitting hairs.

You can screw up the composition by using the wrong focal length or by not paying attention to what is going to end up within the four boundaries of the image. You can miss the digital exposure by letting in too much or too little light. The two concepts are totally separate.

You can also screw it up if you don't post-process correctly or if you print or display the image wrong even if you got the composition and exposure right.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

burkphoto wrote:

Add Panasonic to that list...

I have seen it on the back of my wife's DMC-ZS50. She has no idea what it's for and it doesn't help me a bit. We just leave the camera on Auto everything, just like we do with our iPhones.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

selmslie wrote:

I have seen it on the back of my wife's DMC-ZS50. She has no idea what it's for and it doesn't help me a bit. We just leave the camera on Auto everything, just like we do with our iPhones.

It’s very helpful for setting video exposure, as are the other tools (zebras, waveform monitors, etc.) on the GHx cameras.