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iPhone Camera vs DSLR quality?
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Jul 19, 2019 10:29:43   #
Collhar Loc: New York City.
 
burkphoto wrote:
I think you first (and last!) explain the difference in PURPOSE along with the difference in quality. It is not "iPhone camera vs dSLR quality," in my mind. It's, "What is practical and appropriate for me to use today, to get the results I need from the situation?" I use an iPhone 7 Plus and a Lumix GH4. I no longer use SLRs or dSLRs from Canon and Nikon, as I did for 44 years.

Every camera format from smartphone to 100 MP medium format has an intended use case. The use case for a dSLR or MILC is different from the use case for an iPhone. I use what I use for specific reasons, and my reasons are different from others', and that's okay... and as it should be!

Smartphones have lots of artificial intelligence built in. They use tiny little sensors which are quite good in bright daylight, but very noisy at night. Still, under most circumstances, they blow away all the 35mm ISO 400 and higher speed color films of 50 years ago (Yes, I was around back then, pushing High Speed Ektachrome as far as it would go!).

The tiny sensor in a smartphone means it has a short focal length lens (or two or three). That usually leads to deep depth of field. Whether that is good or bad depends on the intended result. AI (i.e.; Apple's Portrait Mode) can mitigate deep depth of field somewhat.

The tiny sensor limits practical megapixel counts. Most phones are 12 MP or less. The trend, now, is to make slightly larger 12 MP sensors with each iteration, to expose more sensel surface area to light and reduce noise/improve dynamic range. But physics is what it is... Larger sensors suck more photons per sensel, which lowers ultimate noise in each processed file pixel.

If you know what you are doing, and work in good light, you can create 20x16 prints from iPhone 5 and later cameras. We have a couple on our walls, and no one, not even photographers, has asked about what camera recorded the images. Would they "look better" if they had been made with full frame? Yes, if you viewed them from one foot. But due to the subject matter, you view these prints from two or three feet. At that range, they're fine, so long as you aren't comparing them to the same exact scene recorded with a larger format.

A huge impact of the smartphone has been the near total annihilation of the "point-and-shoot" pocket camera market. The "snap shooters" first gave up 35mm "point-and-shoot" film cameras for smaller APS film cameras. Then, less than five years later, they gave up those for point-and-shoot pocket digital cameras. Another five years later, along came the practical smartphone camera.

So... John and Jane Public no longer use idiot-proof cameras of any sort. The smartphone, and its choice from two MILLION apps, is the only thing most want to carry. First, bits beat atoms (digital beat film). Then, the pocket supercomputer beat dedicated cameras, at least for most folks.

The term, "image quality," is loaded with ambiguity. Does it always refer to technical attributes? Or... can it refer to decisive moment? Composition? Use of contrast or color? Storytelling? History? Emotional impact? At some level, a camera is a camera, and a good image has MANY quality characteristics.

Cameras are tools. The subtleties of their differences are often secondary to the impact of their users' results. So I would submit that the photographer's knowledge, experience, training, skills, passion, sensitivity, viewpoint, purpose, and understanding of the situation are often far more important than the brand or format of camera in use.

Three key advantages of the smartphone camera are that for most of us:

> It's always with us, whether doing "intentional photography," or just living life. The most important camera you have is the best one you have with you when a photo opportunity arises.

> It's nearly always connected to the Internet, for immediate sharing of audio, video, photos, text... to any location in the free world, and maybe beyond.

> It's both a camera and a photo album, connectable to anyone else's photo album.

Good luck with your students! Welcome to UHH. Enjoy the spirited (and sometimes appalling, sometimes enlightening) discussions.
I think you first (and last!) explain the differen... (show quote)


The biggest difference is user and audience. The person who take a cell phone picture and instantly shares it is not going have the recipient(s) spend their time writing paragraph after paragraph about whats right or wrong with the picture. They are not going to belittle or be the pompous a$$ and treat the person who took the picture in a demeaning manner. What do they have to prove??

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Jul 19, 2019 10:32:04   #
Collhar Loc: New York City.
 
foathog wrote:
It's just that this question has been asked OVER AND OVER AND OVER...........AND OVER. It's tiresome. Go to the search at the top of this page and do a search. You can write a Dostoyevsky novel with all that is there.


Then move past the caption. If this more than you can endure....move on. You have added to the "novel"

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Jul 19, 2019 10:34:40   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
Gene51 wrote:
Gail, a very large number of pictures are not actually printed anymore since people find that sharing on social media is both convenient and a lot cheaper. There is barely a difference between a picture taken with a cellphone camera and a DSLR/Mirrorless/Bridge/Point and Shoot/MILC camera for a vast number of pictures - when displayed on a UHD, up to 4K screen. However, many Luddites here will complain and say that cellphone cameras are ok if you are making small (4x6, 5x7) prints, yet I have printed up to 16x20 with no complaints about sharpness or image quality.

But in driving home the point that cellphone images can be printed large, Apple has an ongoing ad campaign that shows billboard-sized images taken with their 8 and 12 mp cellphone cameras.

I found this great article from among the 1000s of similar articles on cellphone photography:

https://photographylife.com/camera-phone-photography

One day in 2016 I left the house and forgot to pack my batteries. So I used my phone. The first three images below were taken with an iPhone 5S.
Gail, a very large number of pictures are not actu... (show quote)



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Jul 19, 2019 10:37:20   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
aellman wrote:
Impressive. If it were all about specifications, this would be a simple discussion. It's not. >Alan


Nope, it’s not, but it does point out the limitations. Just the facts, Jack.

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Jul 19, 2019 10:52:16   #
JeffL Loc: New Jersey
 
GailConnorsPhotography wrote:
Wow! I didn't know how thin skinned my fellow photogs were... sorry!


Gail, welcome to the site for very strong opinions that may be based more on prejudice than science. I’ve seen great iPhone photos and some real crap from mega DSLR systems. Yeah, it is a tiny little lens, but for most amateurs it gets the job done. Can the photos be enlarged to cover a wall? Not likely, but you can get an acceptable 8x10 from them or post them to Google Photos. So, ask your students what their end goal 8s for their photos. If it is as stated above, the iPhone will work. If they want “real” photos, they need to up their game. As to your original question, the advice is, as for any photographer, lighting and composition are keys to good photography.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:11:28   #
CWGordon
 
I defend the phone-camera, as my previous comments indicate. The fact that a good print was made at 20x30 does not indicate it is as good as a full frame DSLR might have made. It being acceptable, does not mean that shown next to a similar enlargement from a DSLR it would be its’ equal. If so, this defies all logic of what sensor size means. We might as well all have smaller DSLR’s with tiny sensors if that really is true.
Just as with race-car engines, all things being equal, cubic inches always wins. Same with sensors. Some people may have a more steady hand, but again, that should be an issue with and without either or both cameras.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:16:05   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
CWGordon wrote:
I defend the phone-camera, as my previous comments indicate. The fact that a good print was made at 20x30 does not indicate it is as good as a full frame DSLR might have made. It being acceptable, does not mean that shown next to a similar enlargement from a DSLR it would be its’ equal. If so, this defies all logic of what sensor size means. We might as well all have smaller DSLR’s with tiny sensors if that really is true.
Just as with race-car engines, all things being equal, cubic inches always wins. Same with sensors. Some people may have a more steady hand, but again, that should be an issue with and without either or both cameras.
I defend the phone-camera, as my previous comments... (show quote)


While I articulated my surprise at he quality of an iPhone enlargement (20X30), I will never give up my DSLR's, and will buy more (DSLR's).

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Jul 19, 2019 11:19:26   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
We are not defining "GOOD" or "BETTER" is it the technical (pixels, focus, exposure) or the art (proper farming , subject ?)

Technology of the picture or Art of the picture.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:21:46   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Collhar wrote:
The biggest difference is user and audience. The person who take a cell phone picture and instantly shares it is not going have the recipient(s) spend their time writing paragraph after paragraph about whats right or wrong with the picture. They are not going to belittle or be the pompous a$$ and treat the person who took the picture in a demeaning manner. What do they have to prove??


The nice option with iPhoneography is that you can send it now, or edit it on and send it from your phone, or edit it in post production software and print it later.

Many later smartphones have a raw capture feature, and apps are available that save raw from smartphone cameras and let you massage them into a JPEG after the fact.

A smartphone in the hands of a person with a good, well-trained eye and a knowledge of photography is often better than a high end dSLR in the hands of an owner who has no experience, no training, and no clue how to control it, at least in terms of getting arresting images.

I like to relate the story of a well-to-do heart surgeon I knew in high school. His daughter was a close friend of mine. The good doc decided one day that he would go all out and buy himself a Nikon system. He did a little asking around, and decided he needed to buy two Nikon FTn bodies and six prime lenses, along with a Honeywell Strobonar 770, and a huge leather bag to keep it all in. The guy at the local camera store just saw dollar signs in his eyes!

I was quite a decent yearbook photographer then, and I also had a Nikon FTn, so I was only slightly jealous of Mary's Dad! One day when I was visiting her, I asked him if he liked his gear. He said he hadn't quite figured it out yet.

I learned some ten years later that the good doc only put a few rolls of film through the cameras. After he died, Mary found the bag in a front hall closet. Inside were unopened rolls of Kodachrome film that had expired in 1973! Both cameras were loaded.

Apparently, his first couple of rolls were so disappointing (one blank, one horribly over- and under- exposed), he abandoned thought of using the kit. He just gave up and bought a rangefinder point-and-shoot Yashica. (There was nothing wrong with those Nikons!)

That heart surgeon would have absolutely loved to use an iPhone camera.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:22:06   #
CWGordon
 
I believe JeffL said a lot very efficiently in his contribution.
I only wish I could obtain the
results some people do with
their cellphones. My wife is
not interested in photography
as a hobby at all. I have tried
to get her cameras and to
get her to do more. Nada. No interest. But, you should see
what she can do with her cell
when we are on vacation. Her pictures are a big hit with her
friends whom she immediate
ly sends the pictures. She is not interested in the bulk of even pocket sized cameras. She
doesn’t enlarge or print much
Sometimes they go on her screen-saver. Why would she ever (really) need more than her cellphone camera?

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Jul 19, 2019 11:24:00   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
burkphoto you hit the nail on the head. you expressed what I was trying to say.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:25:38   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
CWGordon wrote:
I believe JeffL said a lot very efficiently in his contribution.
I only wish I could obtain the
results some people do with
their cellphones. My wife is
not interested in photography
as a hobby at all. I have tried
to get her cameras and to
get her to do more. Nada. No interest. But, you should see
what she can do with her cell
when we are on vacation. Her pictures are a big hit with her
friends whom she immediate
ly sends the pictures. She is not interested in the bulk of even pocket sized cameras. She
doesn’t enlarge or print much
Sometimes they go on her screen-saver. Why would she ever (really) need more than her cellphone camera?
I believe JeffL said a lot very efficiently in his... (show quote)


One of the indisputable great things about cell phones is that many, many people who never thought about cameras, are now making very good images--every day.
My wife, never would carry a camera, but she loves her grandchildren, and her cellphone.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:27:41   #
MarkSki
 
Pablo8 wrote:
Produce (if you can) a 24 x 20 print from a 'Top of the range DSLR' and a 24 x 20 from your I phone, of the same subject. Ask your students if they can see any difference in quality. Also ask yourself if you can see any difference. Like to know the results.


I frequently see this “test of quality” in discussions about full frame/crop factor cameras, so it doesn’t surprise me that it’s here in this discussion on phone cameras. I wonder how many actually print to 24x20, and , thus, I find the argument kind of academic. Seems to me that quality should be defined by our photographic purposes and uses, not by a standard that’s not applicable to one’s specific purpose.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:41:23   #
Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana
 
Well, I'm a research guy! I generally use Google, create an appropriate question, and press enter. A multitude of sites become available to me, I generally read most of them, find the ones that are most appropriate to my question, and look for consensus in the replies. I may need to asked different questions, or formulate a different approach, but again always looking for consensus. Research is kind of fun and enlightening when you get the hang of it. Take good notes as you research, and make sure you can return to appropriate sites, and let the learning begin. Great way to educated yourself on any topic or question. Also, you create biographical data and can reference with quotations your sources, which will help your students who are interested in further research. This system worked for me earning master's degrees and teaching college writing. Good luck.

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Jul 19, 2019 11:56:58   #
SRTfirst
 
Thank you, Gene51, for the article re cell phone photography—appreciated it. I’m an “enthusiast” just getting back into the game after years away from 35mm. I love Ugly Hedgehog, but am still surprised by the negativity sometimes expressed.

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