Photoshop Alternatives
Jul 2, 2019 00:12:57 #
My first photo editing software was real early PhotoShop. Since then, I've used an older Photoshop Elements (ver. 5) for a long time, and it's always done what I needed. I started using Elements because it was very similar in operation to PS, and it was way cheaper. Since PE5 still works for me, I have no plans of upgrading.
I do use a 3rd party sharpening plugin and a masking plugin by Corel. I also use Elements+, no idea if it works with current P.E.
The most demanding work I've done with it is processing scans of 6x9 images made with my Galvin view camera. I'm pretty picky about quality, and Elements works for me.
I tried other options, including PaintShop Pro. I didn't like PSP, but I think that's because it's different from PE, and I just didn't put in the time to learn it like i know PE.
Like bsprague said above, you might try it since you will be sort of used to how it works already.
I do use a 3rd party sharpening plugin and a masking plugin by Corel. I also use Elements+, no idea if it works with current P.E.
The most demanding work I've done with it is processing scans of 6x9 images made with my Galvin view camera. I'm pretty picky about quality, and Elements works for me.
I tried other options, including PaintShop Pro. I didn't like PSP, but I think that's because it's different from PE, and I just didn't put in the time to learn it like i know PE.
Like bsprague said above, you might try it since you will be sort of used to how it works already.
Jul 2, 2019 00:33:32 #
Retrobug wrote:
I also use Elements+, no idea if it works with current P.E.
Elements+ has a corresponding version for each version of Elements. Last time I purchased it, it was still $12.
---
Jul 2, 2019 00:53:36 #
Amadeus
Loc: New York
Shotgunner asked a simple question as an amateur hobbyist recommending an editing program and it comes down to a battle of who knows more about what's good and bad. I don't get it. There is great help here and a lot of useful information but sometimes it just gets down to a pissing contest. Good time to hit the "unwatch" button.
Jul 2, 2019 02:45:53 #
Not interested in the whole"pissing contest" nonsense. If you prefer what you use, that's fine with me.
I make my entire living from photography that is also my all-consuming hobby. Used Photoshop from PS5 (not CS5) through PS CS6 when I stopped upgrading because I don't care to be forced into a subscription situation.
Have long used Irridient Digital and Canon's DPP for raw processing (almost never shoot jpegs), they give me superior quality to Adobe's Camera Raw or LightRoom...that is a totally subjective opinion that I don't care to foist off on anyone else.
Affinity Photo is, for me, easily superior to Photoshop for my professional uses that includes publishing, fine art prints to beyond 20x30 inches, magazine covers, and prints hanging in two US embassies and the US Senate ( a dubious honor these days). Affinity has a superb set of free tutorials to get up and running quickly.
We have a wealth of good choices, most of which can produce excellent, high quality results in the hands of anyone who learns to use them well. Yes, good work can still be done with Adobe products, but Adobe is just one of the choices for high quality work
these days, not the only one like in the past.
I make my entire living from photography that is also my all-consuming hobby. Used Photoshop from PS5 (not CS5) through PS CS6 when I stopped upgrading because I don't care to be forced into a subscription situation.
Have long used Irridient Digital and Canon's DPP for raw processing (almost never shoot jpegs), they give me superior quality to Adobe's Camera Raw or LightRoom...that is a totally subjective opinion that I don't care to foist off on anyone else.
Affinity Photo is, for me, easily superior to Photoshop for my professional uses that includes publishing, fine art prints to beyond 20x30 inches, magazine covers, and prints hanging in two US embassies and the US Senate ( a dubious honor these days). Affinity has a superb set of free tutorials to get up and running quickly.
We have a wealth of good choices, most of which can produce excellent, high quality results in the hands of anyone who learns to use them well. Yes, good work can still be done with Adobe products, but Adobe is just one of the choices for high quality work
these days, not the only one like in the past.
Jul 2, 2019 07:38:36 #
Ditto: but sometimes it just gets down to a pissing contest. Good time to hit the "unwatch" button.
Amadeus wrote:
Shotgunner asked a simple question as an amateur hobbyist recommending an editing program and it comes down to a battle of who knows more about what's good and bad. I don't get it. There is great help here and a lot of useful information but sometimes it just gets down to a pissing contest. Good time to hit the "unwatch" button.
Jul 2, 2019 11:01:29 #
no. but you will get many replies so I just wanted to be brief. the free trial is the only way to know if it will work for you.
Jul 2, 2019 12:40:25 #
I have been using PaintShop (PS) in all its forms (JASC, Corel; Pro, ULTRA) since version 3 or 4 (early '90s). I stopped using photoshop after v 5 or 6, when it went subscription, mostly because I really dislike its clunky non-intuitive interface and I am used to PS. I also bought and immediately learned to hate lightroom v4, and will not use it again. I have taken and worked with literally tens of thousands of digital images (using all manner of cameras, up to my latest which are 7DII and 5DIV) and to a one, every single image was finished in PS.
To be sure, it can be harder or take more steps sometimes to achieve some effects, and not all add-on developers support PS directly, but I have been using a pro version of filter forge, ON1, and other tools for years with great success. And I would defy anyone to show how the 'quality' of my images is less than if I had worked them in PhS. The key, of course, is that w/ PS you have to be certain you are not working with originals, and you need to check to ensure .jpgs are saving at 100%, and that you're not making destructive changes to base images, and so on. Basically, from my limited experience with PhS, PS will let you do more unrecoverable damage by accident than PhS if you're not careful. I use Downloader Pro to ensure I always have BUps of originals and for dealing with file naming, converting, filing etc. (it's a really great tool). I also use FastStone Image Viewer for initial image sorting and selection (it's free, it makes lossless changes, and it lets you easily correct EXIF time and date information.
BL: if you are good at managing your process and keeping track of your originals, PS is as every bit as good as PhS for 95% of everything you would ever need to do (unless you're working for a high end publisher that demands PhS use), and you can use almost all the high end tools that work with PhS with PS. It can take some experimentation, and there aren't as many big, expensive how-to books for PS, but the savings and the satisfaction of selling photos that were never touched by PhS can make it worth it.
I have not once had cause to regret abandoning PhS and LR, and I have no plans to invest in their business model again.
Regards
To be sure, it can be harder or take more steps sometimes to achieve some effects, and not all add-on developers support PS directly, but I have been using a pro version of filter forge, ON1, and other tools for years with great success. And I would defy anyone to show how the 'quality' of my images is less than if I had worked them in PhS. The key, of course, is that w/ PS you have to be certain you are not working with originals, and you need to check to ensure .jpgs are saving at 100%, and that you're not making destructive changes to base images, and so on. Basically, from my limited experience with PhS, PS will let you do more unrecoverable damage by accident than PhS if you're not careful. I use Downloader Pro to ensure I always have BUps of originals and for dealing with file naming, converting, filing etc. (it's a really great tool). I also use FastStone Image Viewer for initial image sorting and selection (it's free, it makes lossless changes, and it lets you easily correct EXIF time and date information.
BL: if you are good at managing your process and keeping track of your originals, PS is as every bit as good as PhS for 95% of everything you would ever need to do (unless you're working for a high end publisher that demands PhS use), and you can use almost all the high end tools that work with PhS with PS. It can take some experimentation, and there aren't as many big, expensive how-to books for PS, but the savings and the satisfaction of selling photos that were never touched by PhS can make it worth it.
I have not once had cause to regret abandoning PhS and LR, and I have no plans to invest in their business model again.
Regards
Jul 2, 2019 20:33:32 #
"if you are good at managing your process..."
Maybe this discussion really revolves around process as an approach to quality rather than software as an approach to quality. I fully believe there are several software solutions that allow you to approach quality. (I am intrigued at this report of "Affinity Photo." I will have to look into it.) Full boat PhotoShop, Lightroom, Elements, PaintShop Pro, and Affinity are surely all excellent software approaches. It occurs to me that I really chose Elements because it fit my process requirements, not because it was software superior to the others. I found in the long run, I had to add to Elements and modify my process to get the results I wanted. But the real key in my thinking was how Elements plus add-ons fit into my process. That's the real reason I went the direction I did.
To put this on topic, I think you should look at the end result you are shooting for, and the process you use to get there. The software you choose needs to fit the process and support the end result. Sometimes the software needs add-ons and new extra steps in your process. But if it works for you, that's the important thing.
If your process involves PhotoShop now and you want to ditch the subscription, then Elements might be a good choice because it might fit your current process better than some other choices. On the other hand, maybe reinventing your process and using Affinity or something else would be a better choice.
After some thought, I am convinced that the best way of answering the question "what software should I use" is to look at how you process an image rather than what software is best. Get software that supports how you process your image. The difficult implication is that you will need to get several different software options and see what works for you. The fun is that you will need to get several software options and see what works for you. I have virtually no money to work with, and tried Elements, PaintShop Pro, and several freeware or shareware options. What worked is what fit my process.
Please don't accuse me of entering into a "pissing contest." Pee won't ferment into alcohol no matter what you do with it. I just hope to state what worked for me as I tried to make good photos. If my experience fits you, all the better. Hike your own hike, and make your own photos. ...And fit your own process.
Maybe this discussion really revolves around process as an approach to quality rather than software as an approach to quality. I fully believe there are several software solutions that allow you to approach quality. (I am intrigued at this report of "Affinity Photo." I will have to look into it.) Full boat PhotoShop, Lightroom, Elements, PaintShop Pro, and Affinity are surely all excellent software approaches. It occurs to me that I really chose Elements because it fit my process requirements, not because it was software superior to the others. I found in the long run, I had to add to Elements and modify my process to get the results I wanted. But the real key in my thinking was how Elements plus add-ons fit into my process. That's the real reason I went the direction I did.
To put this on topic, I think you should look at the end result you are shooting for, and the process you use to get there. The software you choose needs to fit the process and support the end result. Sometimes the software needs add-ons and new extra steps in your process. But if it works for you, that's the important thing.
If your process involves PhotoShop now and you want to ditch the subscription, then Elements might be a good choice because it might fit your current process better than some other choices. On the other hand, maybe reinventing your process and using Affinity or something else would be a better choice.
After some thought, I am convinced that the best way of answering the question "what software should I use" is to look at how you process an image rather than what software is best. Get software that supports how you process your image. The difficult implication is that you will need to get several different software options and see what works for you. The fun is that you will need to get several software options and see what works for you. I have virtually no money to work with, and tried Elements, PaintShop Pro, and several freeware or shareware options. What worked is what fit my process.
Please don't accuse me of entering into a "pissing contest." Pee won't ferment into alcohol no matter what you do with it. I just hope to state what worked for me as I tried to make good photos. If my experience fits you, all the better. Hike your own hike, and make your own photos. ...And fit your own process.
Jul 2, 2019 23:03:57 #
I am retired and on a fixed income, so can't afford to spend much on software. Besides I learned photography with film in the 70s. What one could do in the darkroom is nothing like digital processing. I use Polarr and Landscape pro.
Jul 3, 2019 18:53:19 #
Retrobug & Robinbs (& JhnMhn)
I've been thinking about what I wrote above, and when I came back to reread, I found I'd come to somewhat the same conclusions about 'process' and the issue of cost--and that talking about PS vs PhS misses the point. You all got there ahead of me, so I'll just talk more about some tools I use and why. Hopefully it will help.
1st though, JhnMhn, thanks for the info about Affinity Photo. I'm always looking for tools that will help me do something better or faster, or will do something clever, and after looking at some reviews of AP, I plan to look harder, if only to see what if it can do anything I can't already do.
~~
So. 1. FastStone Image Viewer (FSIV).
First, it's free for personal use. If you want to register it, the cost is 20-30 dollars, I think--one time. I've paid for it twice because I felt bad about using it for years without making additional donations, and I am getting ready to do it again because the developer recently made a small change I requested and sent me a beta within days, then that became the next .# release. You can't ask for better user focus than that.
I use FSIV primarily for my initial select and sort of images after I've downloaded them from the camera, using Downloader Pro, which renames and numbers, and sorts everything into folders and even makes backups during the download process (more about DLPro in a bit). FSIV has a very configurable windows-explorer type interface that lets you look at, compare, and tag/untag images really quickly, especially if you are using 2 monitors.
I mostly photograph birds, insects, and other critters. Because most of them are moving, I end up with a half dozen or more very similar images every time I press the shutter release. I could return from a 30 minute lunch trip to the 'ponds' with 500-700 photos, and from a day out with several thousand. Using FSIV, I can review and select (tag) hundreds of images at a rate of up to 6-7 per minute, easy--at least the first time through. It's brute force, but generally efficient and fast, and tagging is snap.
After I've run through the downloads the first time and reduced the total to those that have some potential, I look at them for sharpness (at 100% or > zoom). Often, several in a series will be close, but mostly it's possible to ID a single sharpest one. I use the multi-image viewer for that: I open two or four images, align them as well as I can, and then use the 'overlay' button to find the best. I flick the overlay button on and off. This quickly shows which image is sharpest, most of the time with only a little effort. I delete the worst of the two and then go back for the next one I want to compare. It's brute force, but I end up with only a fraction of the images I started with, and all the ones left are the best of the lot and something I want to keep.
I also use FSIV to apply the correct time and date to the exif. Because I travel a lot, I always just leave my cameras set to UTC time (Greenwich Mean, but w/o DST). I know where I was when I took the pics, and the camera date is correct, so I just use FSIV to add or subtract the offset hours. It can also correct date/time issues caused by editing software that changes the file date when you add geocoords, e.g., as Geosetter will do sometimes. This is a crucial tool for me.
And last--and best--from the POV of the initial question, is that FSIV has an entire suite of image editing and fixing tools that I never use because I have PS, but which a photographer friend uses almost exclusively for his photo finishing. The range of tools and effects is not as extensive as PS, but it gets the job done. And most important, it does lossless image rotations, resizing, and etc. I could go on, but there's really not enough room to cover all it does.
BL, FSIV is an excellent tool for managing and finishing photos if you don't need to use PhS or PS.
2. Downloader Pro. An inexpensive, super versatile tool that will copy images from a camera to a drive really quickly, while renaming and sorting them, without damage. It's a bit technical getting set up because it uses tokens to create file and folder names based on date, time, camera type (or owner), lens types, and a couple dozen other variables as you desire. Once you get it set up, however, it's a dream. I sort my photos into folders named yyyymm with filenames yyyymmdd_time(24 hr)_oneup#_myinits_00a(Version#)_cameraID. I only have to select the images to download and push go. It does all that and makes backup copies too.
3. Geosetter. Free Personal (donations). A specialty tool that lets you do all sorts of map based things with images, but especially to put or easily correct geocoords in the EXIF data. Both of my cameras have GPS, but the 7DII is not as accurate as the 5DIV, and both are off sometimes, depending on travel speed, etc. Geosetter allows me to correct errors, assign locations, and so on, all pretty easily. It can be a quirky program and figuring out the best settings for your workflow can be tricky, but again it has been worth it to me.
4. Bulk Rename Utility. Free Personal (donations). After I've got my images sorted, tagged, and (re)dated, I use this great free (but somewhat complicated) tool to clean up and rename/renumber all of the files. This can be tricky to learn, but it's more than worth the effort to learn it--much better than Lupas Rename was (but not as easy), and it works with Windows 10 w/out needing tweaks.
5. FilterForge (FF). Not free, though it isn't overly costly. I paid for a lifetime upgrade to the pro version, but I do a LOT of photo editing and manipulation. This just cannot be beat for filters. I use a lot of other filters in PS and some purpose-bought stuff, but FF is bar-none the best for what it does. There are hundreds of filters, free, if you pay for the license.
6/7: IrfanView and XNView. Both free. Down and dirty image viewers and editors, great for looking at any format item in a hurry and doing quick crops or some basic clean up. You have to tell it not to compress .jpgs on re-saves, but you have to do that in a lot of software. Both also have plug-ins that do specific things. Great tools for quick work.
8. jAlbum. I pay for the pro version, but there is a free version, I think. It is not so much for editing photos as for building super nice, super easy to maintain photoalbum websites. I put jAlbum sites on my server hosts, but they offer server space if you don't want to deal with your own domain names and so on. A super receptive and helpful bunch of folks. This is just great software (you design your site, then apply various skins to achieve different looks). Same undercarriage, generally, reskin it and you have a new look.
And that's it for now. Sorry for length. Hope it helped. BTW, I will be happy to discuss specific tools and uses and to help with problems or config on anything I recommended.
Regards
I've been thinking about what I wrote above, and when I came back to reread, I found I'd come to somewhat the same conclusions about 'process' and the issue of cost--and that talking about PS vs PhS misses the point. You all got there ahead of me, so I'll just talk more about some tools I use and why. Hopefully it will help.
1st though, JhnMhn, thanks for the info about Affinity Photo. I'm always looking for tools that will help me do something better or faster, or will do something clever, and after looking at some reviews of AP, I plan to look harder, if only to see what if it can do anything I can't already do.
~~
So. 1. FastStone Image Viewer (FSIV).
First, it's free for personal use. If you want to register it, the cost is 20-30 dollars, I think--one time. I've paid for it twice because I felt bad about using it for years without making additional donations, and I am getting ready to do it again because the developer recently made a small change I requested and sent me a beta within days, then that became the next .# release. You can't ask for better user focus than that.
I use FSIV primarily for my initial select and sort of images after I've downloaded them from the camera, using Downloader Pro, which renames and numbers, and sorts everything into folders and even makes backups during the download process (more about DLPro in a bit). FSIV has a very configurable windows-explorer type interface that lets you look at, compare, and tag/untag images really quickly, especially if you are using 2 monitors.
I mostly photograph birds, insects, and other critters. Because most of them are moving, I end up with a half dozen or more very similar images every time I press the shutter release. I could return from a 30 minute lunch trip to the 'ponds' with 500-700 photos, and from a day out with several thousand. Using FSIV, I can review and select (tag) hundreds of images at a rate of up to 6-7 per minute, easy--at least the first time through. It's brute force, but generally efficient and fast, and tagging is snap.
After I've run through the downloads the first time and reduced the total to those that have some potential, I look at them for sharpness (at 100% or > zoom). Often, several in a series will be close, but mostly it's possible to ID a single sharpest one. I use the multi-image viewer for that: I open two or four images, align them as well as I can, and then use the 'overlay' button to find the best. I flick the overlay button on and off. This quickly shows which image is sharpest, most of the time with only a little effort. I delete the worst of the two and then go back for the next one I want to compare. It's brute force, but I end up with only a fraction of the images I started with, and all the ones left are the best of the lot and something I want to keep.
I also use FSIV to apply the correct time and date to the exif. Because I travel a lot, I always just leave my cameras set to UTC time (Greenwich Mean, but w/o DST). I know where I was when I took the pics, and the camera date is correct, so I just use FSIV to add or subtract the offset hours. It can also correct date/time issues caused by editing software that changes the file date when you add geocoords, e.g., as Geosetter will do sometimes. This is a crucial tool for me.
And last--and best--from the POV of the initial question, is that FSIV has an entire suite of image editing and fixing tools that I never use because I have PS, but which a photographer friend uses almost exclusively for his photo finishing. The range of tools and effects is not as extensive as PS, but it gets the job done. And most important, it does lossless image rotations, resizing, and etc. I could go on, but there's really not enough room to cover all it does.
BL, FSIV is an excellent tool for managing and finishing photos if you don't need to use PhS or PS.
2. Downloader Pro. An inexpensive, super versatile tool that will copy images from a camera to a drive really quickly, while renaming and sorting them, without damage. It's a bit technical getting set up because it uses tokens to create file and folder names based on date, time, camera type (or owner), lens types, and a couple dozen other variables as you desire. Once you get it set up, however, it's a dream. I sort my photos into folders named yyyymm with filenames yyyymmdd_time(24 hr)_oneup#_myinits_00a(Version#)_cameraID. I only have to select the images to download and push go. It does all that and makes backup copies too.
3. Geosetter. Free Personal (donations). A specialty tool that lets you do all sorts of map based things with images, but especially to put or easily correct geocoords in the EXIF data. Both of my cameras have GPS, but the 7DII is not as accurate as the 5DIV, and both are off sometimes, depending on travel speed, etc. Geosetter allows me to correct errors, assign locations, and so on, all pretty easily. It can be a quirky program and figuring out the best settings for your workflow can be tricky, but again it has been worth it to me.
4. Bulk Rename Utility. Free Personal (donations). After I've got my images sorted, tagged, and (re)dated, I use this great free (but somewhat complicated) tool to clean up and rename/renumber all of the files. This can be tricky to learn, but it's more than worth the effort to learn it--much better than Lupas Rename was (but not as easy), and it works with Windows 10 w/out needing tweaks.
5. FilterForge (FF). Not free, though it isn't overly costly. I paid for a lifetime upgrade to the pro version, but I do a LOT of photo editing and manipulation. This just cannot be beat for filters. I use a lot of other filters in PS and some purpose-bought stuff, but FF is bar-none the best for what it does. There are hundreds of filters, free, if you pay for the license.
6/7: IrfanView and XNView. Both free. Down and dirty image viewers and editors, great for looking at any format item in a hurry and doing quick crops or some basic clean up. You have to tell it not to compress .jpgs on re-saves, but you have to do that in a lot of software. Both also have plug-ins that do specific things. Great tools for quick work.
8. jAlbum. I pay for the pro version, but there is a free version, I think. It is not so much for editing photos as for building super nice, super easy to maintain photoalbum websites. I put jAlbum sites on my server hosts, but they offer server space if you don't want to deal with your own domain names and so on. A super receptive and helpful bunch of folks. This is just great software (you design your site, then apply various skins to achieve different looks). Same undercarriage, generally, reskin it and you have a new look.
And that's it for now. Sorry for length. Hope it helped. BTW, I will be happy to discuss specific tools and uses and to help with problems or config on anything I recommended.
Regards
Jul 7, 2019 16:40:02 #
I use Photoshop Elements. It has, I've been told, 85% of photoshops stuff. Maybe not that much, but it is pretty good.
You add NIK to it and you have a large toolbox.
There was a link someone posted on UH for NIK still available for free. I couldn't find it. Maybe someone knows where it is.
You add NIK to it and you have a large toolbox.
There was a link someone posted on UH for NIK still available for free. I couldn't find it. Maybe someone knows where it is.
Jul 11, 2019 10:47:29 #
Nik offers a free trial.
topcat wrote:
I use Photoshop Elements. It has, I've been told, 85% of photoshops stuff. Maybe not that much, but it is pretty good.
You add NIK to it and you have a large toolbox.
There was a link someone posted on UH for NIK still available for free. I couldn't find it. Maybe someone knows where it is.
You add NIK to it and you have a large toolbox.
There was a link someone posted on UH for NIK still available for free. I couldn't find it. Maybe someone knows where it is.
Jul 11, 2019 16:15:58 #
Someone posted where the NIK collection is totally free, not just the trial.
I searched and here is where it is said to be free. I have not tried it, so I don't really know how it works...
https://rebrand.ly/nikcollection_windows
I searched and here is where it is said to be free. I have not tried it, so I don't really know how it works...
https://rebrand.ly/nikcollection_windows
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