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Should I go to medium format?
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May 8, 2019 22:09:46   #
Pkfish Loc: Wilson Wy
 
Kiron Kid wrote:
Go peruse the huge prints in a Tom Mangelson Gallery. He shoots 35mm.


I think he did when everyone did. Did not not see him with a film camera last weekend. It was a Nikon.

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May 9, 2019 04:37:28   #
silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.
 
John Howard wrote:
I have been thinking about this for a while. I shoot mostly landscape and structures. I moved from D810 to D850 last year. I wonder if going from 45 to say, 50 mp on a larger sensor would noticeably improve IQ. My skill level is pretty good. I get sharp images, well exposed and print large with good results. I saw this DxO report on Fb. ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fphotorumors.com%2F2019%2F05%2F07%2Fpanasonic-lumix-dc-s1r-camera-tested-at-dxomark%2F&h=AT1trvFNxNiuWRPk6kWM-RcqvwXXB-fNJiwdAbXC7uDik_OuED5JXYq0ezP-NJod0a-fqVvNFFTgtVkIenTTke0beMQvzaDV26iZLX3iexLXI_PYqisNQeNPGRDFLkU&s=1 ). I am surprised to see the results and that the the only medium format in this test is only slightly better. I just sold an extra car and so the gas attack is working. Do any of the medium format shooters here have a view?
I have been thinking about this for a while. I sho... (show quote)


Here is an image shot with my D850 camera. I used an older Nikon 28-70 2.8 lens, the pre curser to the 24-70 lens but still a stellar performer. I bought this particular lens because I do a lot of Infra Red imaging and that lens does not have the hot spot problem. Camera was mounted on a Gitzo tripod for stability. This is a jpeg file and the original photoshop image can easily be printed to 24x30 inches if not larger. The Nikon D850 is a wonderful camera.



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May 9, 2019 09:48:21   #
SpyderJan Loc: New Smyrna Beach. FL
 
silver wrote:
Here is an image shot with my D850 camera. I used an older Nikon 28-70 2.8 lens, the pre curser to the 24-70 lens but still a stellar performer. I bought this particular lens because I do a lot of Infra Red imaging and that lens does not have the hot spot problem. Camera was mounted on a Gitzo tripod for stability. This is a jpeg file and the original photoshop image can easily be printed to 24x30 inches if not larger. The Nikon D850 is a wonderful camera.


A very nice capture Silver.

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May 9, 2019 12:50:20   #
dick ranez
 
Do you have a tilt/shift lens? That may do more to help your structure photos than a medium format camera. The Pano and focus stacking techniques may more than compensate for a slightly larger image, and post processing can be a huge benefit. Before I made any decision, I'd rent a medium format camera and lens for a long weekend and give it a real workout. That should answer any questions you may have and let you move forward - either way - with more confidence.

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Aug 25, 2019 14:56:45   #
reverand
 
A little late to reply, but I was asking myself the same question, because when I did silver-gelatin photography, I gradually moved up to larger formats, from 35mm to 2 1/4, from 2 1/4 to 4 x 5, for the very reason you're considering the switch. I now have a D850, and I've been watching, with interest, the comparisons of the D850 with the Hasselblad H6D 100Mpx. Obviously, 100Mpx is twice the D850's 47Mpx, and the sensor is bigger. Comparative tests run by Hasselblad reveal that, yes, you get more detail, a better range of colors, and better dynamic range (highlights in a model's hair, for instance, are still blond). But after carefully reviewing the images, I quickly figured out that all the supposed advantages of the Hasselblad could be captured in post-processing. Better detail (in the shadow)? Push the sharpness slider up to about 45. Better color range? Push Vibrance up to about 35. Better highlight detail? Reduce the highlight slider until the blown-out areas are gone. There was nothing in the "superior" Hasselblad print that I couldn't match with Lightroom. Then, of course, the Hasselblad costs $29,000, and if you decide you need a lens (duh), that's another $5,000. The Hasselblad is also clumsy to use, and it can only focus on a central spot, which can't be moved, and can't be put in another position. I suppose you could focus the Hasselblad manually, but do you think that's appropriate for a $30,000 camera? When I compare my processed D850 shots to my old 4 x 5 photographs, I can't tell the difference in sharpness. Stick with D850.

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Aug 25, 2019 17:42:50   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
Having just bought a used 51MP Pentax 645Z with the auto 55mm lens for $3000 and 3 manual lenses for another $500, the Pentax images look different to me than full frame. Maybe it's just wishful thinking but the color quality and detail of the pics seems more like film to me than digital. When I shot 120 Velvia 50 slide film on a Mamiya 645, I tried to match the 120 film pics by post processing Nikon dslr shots taken at the same time, same subject and settings. I couldn't do it.

Granted you do sacrifice a lot for the Pentax 645Z image look. It's a heavy camera and the video is rudimentary, 2K with no ability for auto tracking or using the lcd magnifier or focus peaking in movie mode, like you have in stills mode. You can either pre-focus and the subject can't move out of the focus range, or you need to stop the video and refocus. But given all that I'm more than happy with the image quality in stills and video.
reverand wrote:
A little late to reply, but I was asking myself the same question, because when I did silver-gelatin photography, I gradually moved up to larger formats, from 35mm to 2 1/4, from 2 1/4 to 4 x 5, for the very reason you're considering the switch. I now have a D850, and I've been watching, with interest, the comparisons of the D850 with the Hasselblad H6D 100Mpx. Obviously, 100Mpx is twice the D850's 47Mpx, and the sensor is bigger. Comparative tests run by Hasselblad reveal that, yes, you get more detail, a better range of colors, and better dynamic range (highlights in a model's hair, for instance, are still blond). But after carefully reviewing the images, I quickly figured out that all the supposed advantages of the Hasselblad could be captured in post-processing. Better detail (in the shadow)? Push the sharpness slider up to about 45. Better color range? Push Vibrance up to about 35. Better highlight detail? Reduce the highlight slider until the blown-out areas are gone. There was nothing in the "superior" Hasselblad print that I couldn't match with Lightroom. Then, of course, the Hasselblad costs $29,000, and if you decide you need a lens (duh), that's another $5,000. The Hasselblad is also clumsy to use, and it can only focus on a central spot, which can't be moved, and can't be put in another position. I suppose you could focus the Hasselblad manually, but do you think that's appropriate for a $30,000 camera? When I compare my processed D850 shots to my old 4 x 5 photographs, I can't tell the difference in sharpness. Stick with D850.
A little late to reply, but I was asking myself th... (show quote)

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Sep 5, 2019 00:06:12   #
Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal
 
bleirer wrote:
I looked seriously into film 4x5. You can still buy new cameras in that format. The problem I ran into was finding color processing. In my area I had difficulty finding companies willing to do processing, and getting optical scanning was really expensive. I don't remember the details, but when you add up film. Scanning, and processing, it is pretty daunting. Even doing your own, the chemistry was hard to find and wasn't cheap and the temp control needed was pretty tight, plus the cost of a high quality scanner.
I looked seriously into film 4x5. You can still bu... (show quote)


I shot another wedding at a RenFaire. Routinely it's >600 shots with a digital.
I had also shot a wedding with a 120 film camera. 6 rolls of film.
The last time I used a 4x5, it took me 2 days to shoot 10 landscapes in the most sunny days possible.
@ 90% of the Renfaire pics were culls, as were 65% of the MF ones. None of the 4x5s, tho 1 was close.
I live in Los Angeles- film processors should be within walking distance. Nope. I gotta mailorder too. Also.
Ask the folk here for some recommendations- maybe some are closer to you. And play it!
"HI! some guys at The Ugly Hedgehog said you were the guys to go to. Can you help me?" Good happens.
You don't want prints. Yet. Get highest quality scans instead.

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Jan 28, 2020 19:02:09   #
reverand
 
There are some nice clips on Youtube comparing medium format with the D850. They show a slightly wider dynamic range (whites in the hair of a studio shot of a model came out with more detail), slightly better sharpness in the deep shadows. The clip I saw was by a spokesman for the larger format, so I was taking everything with a grain of salt. When he showed the differences side by side, it seemed to me that every "improvement" in the larger format I could duplicate in post-processing. Dynamic range? Fiddle with the contrast and exposure sliders. Sharpness in the shadows? Move the sharpness slider up, and so on. In short, all of the subtle differences could be compensated for by simple maneuvers in Lightroom.

The other problem with the bigger format cameras, aside from the enormous expense, is that they're clumsy cameras to use, not just because they're heavier. For instance, I think you can't change the focus points to different patterns, as you can on a D850. The autofocusing isn't very good, and if you're focusing on things that move, forget about it (and forget about focus stacking, high-dynamic range, etc.). Of course, to use the camera at its best advantage, you'd be on a tripod, which, in turn, eliminates what you can photograph.

I suppose if you're hired to make prints billboard size, you might benefit from the larger format, but I really think technology has reached the point of diminishing returns. At magnifications up to 16 x 20, you won't notice any improvements. Years ago, I switched from 35mm format film cameras to a 4 x 5 in order to improve the overall quality. However, much to my surprise, my 16 x 20 prints from the D850 seem to match my 16 x 20 prints from the 4 x 5. If anything, the D850 prints are sharper. Once I discovered that, I didn't see any need to move up to a larger format.

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Jan 29, 2020 14:20:25   #
Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal
 
Why mess around?
Get yourself a nice 5x7" (or larger) film camera.
MUCH better images, IQ and the negs are wonderful.

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Jan 29, 2020 15:41:04   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Harry0 wrote:
Why mess around?
Get yourself a nice 5x7" (or larger) film camera.
MUCH better images, IQ and the negs are wonderful.


Or even an old 2 1/4 X 2 1/4 film camera. I was amazed at what I could get with my old Yashica, and used Hasselblads are available very inexpensively.

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