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cropping question.
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Apr 25, 2019 09:49:14   #
buckscop Loc: Bucks County PA
 
The #1 reason is youth sports pics. I am using PSE and now have 18. I will crop usually to bring in a shot ('zoom' in on the player/play in question) and/or to cut out unwanted parts of the image. With those and other images that are keepers, I usually am looking to PP them for clarity/color/composition and in doing so (without really thinking about it) always cropped it to a 6x4 crop. I also may turn a taken horizontal shot and crop it into a vertical finished image (especially in sports). As I said originally, it was 6x4 mainly because when I did home print pics, it was on 6x4 paper. I also like to find what I call 'pictures within a picture'. Catching an unintended point of interest not related to and away from the original desired point of interest. Cropping to that 'other' pic, as I said, will also be a new 6x4 grab.

All saves are usually to jpg.

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Apr 25, 2019 09:51:29   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
buckscop wrote:
The #1 reason is youth sports pics. I am using PSE and now have 18. I will crop usually to bring in a shot ('zoom' in on the player/play in question) and/or to cut out unwanted parts of the image. With those and other images that are keepers, I usually am looking to PP them for clarity/color/composition and in doing so (without really thinking about it) always cropped it to a 6x4 crop. I also may turn a taken horizontal shot and crop it into a vertical finished image (especially in sports). As I said originally, it was 6x4 mainly because when I did home print pics, it was on 6x4 paper. I also like to find what I call 'pictures within a picture'. Catching an unintended point of interest not related to and away from the original desired point of interest. Cropping to that 'other' pic, as I said, will also be a new 6x4 grab.
The #1 reason is youth sports pics. I am using PS... (show quote)

Now we understand better.

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Apr 25, 2019 09:56:44   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
buckscop wrote:
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw & jpg. Besides cropping for composition, I generally crop all my keepers at a 6"x4" size with PSE when processing. am i doing my images an 'injustice' to crop to that size versus a larger size, or does it not matter. I'm sure i picked that way back due to the size i would print out pictures at home. I do very little home printing nowadays, so if cropping, is there a better size? Most of my work gets put on electronic picture frames, emailed to family, or ends up online. I do some canvas printing, usually 16x20, but probably had already cut it to 6x4 when PSE processing originally. Thanks.
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw &a... (show quote)


Just curious, are you cropping everything to 4x6 regardless of composition? Also, instead of using the picture frames, you may want to look at Pro Show to make shows for viewing on a TV. It’s a great program, easy to use. Check it out at photodex.com. The pan and zoom features allow you many options to change the composition as the photo is viewed. Turns still shots into dynamic motion presentations.

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Apr 25, 2019 10:19:47   #
2mdman
 
As others have suggested, save the original. For cropping to share photos online or ones that I don't think I'll print right away, I use the NO RESTRICTION option which allows you to do any crop to get the composition you want. If I think I may print later, then I'll usually select USE PHOTO RATION which is 3:2 in my case. Lastly, if I need a specific size that I didn't crop for, I'll go back to the original (RAW or PSD version I created), and crop for that.

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Apr 25, 2019 10:59:34   #
BlueMorel Loc: Southwest Michigan
 
gmar3180 wrote:
Maybe you should see Steve Perry's "The Cropping Epidemic" so that you can decide for yourself.
https://backcountrygallery.com/the-cropping-epidemic/


Great article, Steve! Of course, it gives me GAS! I can only get so close with the lenses I have, so small wildlife and other scenes mean I often have crop-itis, which is fine for documenting but can't compete with yours (and others on here), for sure.

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Apr 25, 2019 13:12:30   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I generally crop/size my images for prints, much as yourself. My preferred overall sizes are 12x18 and 16x20. I'll resize the print image for posting.
--Bob
buckscop wrote:
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw & jpg. Besides cropping for composition, I generally crop all my keepers at a 6"x4" size with PSE when processing. am i doing my images an 'injustice' to crop to that size versus a larger size, or does it not matter. I'm sure i picked that way back due to the size i would print out pictures at home. I do very little home printing nowadays, so if cropping, is there a better size? Most of my work gets put on electronic picture frames, emailed to family, or ends up online. I do some canvas printing, usually 16x20, but probably had already cut it to 6x4 when PSE processing originally. Thanks.
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw &a... (show quote)

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Apr 25, 2019 13:23:03   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
buckscop wrote:
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw & jpg. Besides cropping for composition, I generally crop all my keepers at a 6"x4" size with PSE when processing. am i doing my images an 'injustice' to crop to that size versus a larger size, or does it not matter. I'm sure i picked that way back due to the size i would print out pictures at home. I do very little home printing nowadays, so if cropping, is there a better size? Most of my work gets put on electronic picture frames, emailed to family, or ends up online. I do some canvas printing, usually 16x20, but probably had already cut it to 6x4 when PSE processing originally. Thanks.
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw &a... (show quote)


Never crop your original (out of camera) files. When you shoot Raw those are more or less safe from harm. But when you shoot JPEGs don't work on the originals, make copies or what I do if I have to shoot JPGs or accidentally do I immediately convert them to DNG files before doing anything else to them. I shoot generally Raw and use ACR and Ps CS6. For my final processed images these days that I archive and then use for printing or Web publishing, I save them as 10x15" or if another ratio, slightly smaller as 16-bit 300ppi PSD, PSB, or TIFF files. I think you can only get 8-bit with PSE. I then may resize or crop for JPGs. You can always make smaller crops but to going bigger you will loose quality. I do 10x15" because I rarely ever go larger than 8x12" on a 11x14" mat for the images I hang around the house. If you plan to print 16x20" save your initial final images to that size or you might go 8x10" at 600ppi if PSE can do that.

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Apr 25, 2019 13:57:35   #
willaim Loc: Sunny Southern California
 
I hope you you make a copy of the original in PSE and edit and crop on the copy. This way you still have the original. I crop for composition purposes.

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Apr 25, 2019 14:02:14   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
stanikon wrote:
I only crop for composition purposes. Size can be managed in several other ways in this digital age.




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Apr 25, 2019 14:14:16   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
buckscop wrote:
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw & jpg. Besides cropping for composition, I generally crop all my keepers at a 6"x4" size with PSE when processing. am i doing my images an 'injustice' to crop to that size versus a larger size, or does it not matter. I'm sure i picked that way back due to the size i would print out pictures at home. I do very little home printing nowadays, so if cropping, is there a better size? Most of my work gets put on electronic picture frames, emailed to family, or ends up online. I do some canvas printing, usually 16x20, but probably had already cut it to 6x4 when PSE processing originally. Thanks.
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw &a... (show quote)


Are you actually "cropping" the image?

The size info you have provided is incomplete and doesn't really tell us.

What's important is the pixel dimensions of the image... or the pixels per inch.

For example, your 24MP camera natively makes 4000x6000 pixel image. If you simply change the "size" of the image to 4x6", but leave the resolution unchanged, you can end up with 1000 pixels per inch and the image is still 4000x6000 pixels. Or if you change the image to 16x24", leaving the resolution unchanged, it will be 250 pixels per inch and still 4000x6000 pixels. Either way, you actually haven't "cropped" the image at all!

You need to size your images primarily for their pixel dimensions.

For online sharing and digital display, usually 100 pixels per inch is a good choice, since that's close to the resolution of most monitors or LCD displays. A 4x6 at 400x600 pixels will load quickly and can be easily attached to an email. On most monitors a 400x600 pixel image will display 4x6" (it will display a bit smaller on 4K and higher resolution monitors). This assumes that whatever is being used to display the image is set to its native resolution (it's possible to change that, but you have no control over what people do with their computer monitor... so no need to worry about it).

For printing you should size images at a higher resolution. Many inkjet printers use around 240 pixels per inch optimally... Commercial printers can use the same, but may be fine with a little less or,for some processes may even require a little more (ask the printing service for their recommendation). You mention printing on canvas, where the coarse texture of the print medium will probably make a fine looking image with as little as 170 pixels per inch or possibly even 140 ppi. For printing on smooth matte paper I usually use 300 ppi... more than necessary, but a round number that's a lot easier to calculate in my head.

Once you determine the resolution you want in pixels per inch, then you can set the size in inches.

Reducing the SIZE of your images to something less than the native resolution of your camera for printing or display will tend to make the images appear sharper and hide any minor focus error. It's also possible to increase resolution of an image to make bigger than the native resolution... "up-rezzing" them. When that's done, the software is adding pixels to the image by "interpolation".... using the adjacent pixels as a guide for the new ones it creates (that's a somewhat simplistic description of the process). For example, let's say you want to make a large 24x36" print and are using an inkjet process where 240 ppi is recommended.... in that case you would be increase your camera's native 4000x6000 pixel image to a 5760x8640 pixels (240 x 24 and 240 x 36).

Of course, maybe you actually are also cropping the image itself... using only a portion of it. For example, making an 8x10 print will always require that some of the longer dimension be "trimmed" off, even if you don't trim some of the short dimension, too. That's because of the different "aspect ratios"... 3:2 versus 5:4.

Or maybe you want to magnify part of the image and trim off other parts of it, just to improve the composition or eliminate some distraction from the edge of the image... or even just to straighten an image a little.

Actual cropping, for whatever reason, has to be done judiciously. At some point, you'll be trimming off and "throwing" away too much of an image for it to be usable. How much cropping is possible depends upon your end use and the quality of the image you need. You mention converting an image from horizontal to vertical, for example. At a minimum, that means you're going from the 4000x6000 pixels (24MP) of the original image to 2666x4000 pixels (10.7MP).... In other words you are trimming off and "throwing away" approx. 55% of the image. That probably would be no problem if making a 6x9 or moderate size image for online display... but is no longer going to be sufficient for a 16x24" print! If you also using cropping to "zoom in"... further cropping the image... at some point image quality will start to degrade heavily. The image will become "pixelated". Minimize the amount of cropping whenever possible, for the best image quality.

If you are applying noise reduction, I recommend doing that early in your post processing, before reducing the resolution of your image at all.

Conversely, any sharpening to the image should be done as one of the last steps, after the image has been cropped and resized for it's intended use. This is so that you can adjust the sharpening to avoid problems such as artifacts that sharpening can cause in images.

Simply keep your RAW files.... Those are your "original" and complete images. You have to convert RAW to some other sort of file to use them anyway. RAW cannot be viewed directly or printed. They must be converted to a JPEG or other file type, first. And those conversions can be any size, resolution, crop or aspect ratio you want or need for a particular purpose, without any changes being made to the RAW original. So you can always go back to the RAW and create another file that's sized and/or cropped differently. If you shot JPEGs only, then you'd want to set aside originals of those. If shooting RAW + JPEG, feel free to size those JPEGs any way you wish. You can always generate a new one from the RAW file.

Finally, don't conflate image "pixels per inch" resolution with printing "dots per inch". They are not the same thing. With many print processes, the printer lays down three (or more) dots for each pixel in an image. As a result, the resolution of a printer is often triple that of the image.

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Apr 25, 2019 14:37:20   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
I shoot in RAW but I save my processed photos as JPEG. I will do three JPEG "save as" photos. First, I will save the full sized photo as a JPEG (example: 04-25-19_001). I will then, second, crop the photo to the size I want and "save as" original file name + crop size (example: 04-25-19_001 6x4). Third, if I want to share the photo on line I will save it as a low resolution photo (example: 04-25-19_001 6x4 lo res). Three different files, same basic photo.

When I first started digital photography I shot only in JPEG; I always used "save as" when saving a processed photo. I still have all my original JPEG files should I want to look at them again and process them. Even after processing them again I will "save as". I would just add a letter (like "a") to the file name.

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Apr 25, 2019 14:44:34   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
buckscop wrote:
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw & jpg. Besides cropping for composition, I generally crop all my keepers at a 6"x4" size with PSE when processing. am i doing my images an 'injustice' to crop to that size versus a larger size, or does it not matter. I'm sure i picked that way back due to the size i would print out pictures at home. I do very little home printing nowadays, so if cropping, is there a better size? Most of my work gets put on electronic picture frames, emailed to family, or ends up online. I do some canvas printing, usually 16x20, but probably had already cut it to 6x4 when PSE processing originally. Thanks.
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw &a... (show quote)


3x2 is fine as long as all your prints are in that aspect. If someone asks for 8X10 or 11X14 you have to chop off some chunk. While I try to stay with 3:2 I leave some extra such that if i have to crop I don't destroy the composition.

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Apr 25, 2019 14:55:31   #
Traveller_Jeff
 
buckscop wrote:
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw & jpg. Besides cropping for composition, I generally crop all my keepers at a 6"x4" size with PSE when processing. am i doing my images an 'injustice' to crop to that size versus a larger size, or does it not matter. I'm sure i picked that way back due to the size i would print out pictures at home. I do very little home printing nowadays, so if cropping, is there a better size? Most of my work gets put on electronic picture frames, emailed to family, or ends up online. I do some canvas printing, usually 16x20, but probably had already cut it to 6x4 when PSE processing originally. Thanks.
Amateur. Canon T7i. Usually jpg, sometimes raw &a... (show quote)


I crop only according to the needs and balance the image requires. Sometimes I close crop; other times, I let more background in to balance the image as to color or “weight.” As far as I can recall, I’ve never cropped to achieve some preconceived, arbitrary sizing standard. I just let the image talk to me, and I go by its dictates. Every photographer makes his/her own mind up about this issue. Feel free to go with your own aesthetic sense.

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Apr 25, 2019 15:06:25   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
buckscop wrote:
and in doing so (without really thinking about it) always cropped it to a 6x4 crop...

I also may turn a taken horizontal shot and crop it into a vertical finished image...


1) The image starts out as a 6 X 4 ASPECT RATIO. That means that it can be printed WITH NO CROPPING as a 4 X 6 (or 8 X 12, 2 X 3, 6 X 9, or a host of other sizes that have one side 1.5 times the size of the other.) So the aspect ratio isn't the reason to crop. If more than 1/3 of the area of the original is being cropped out, the original should have been taken either by moving closer, or with a "longer" lens.

2) I have many times seen someone holding a cell phone or iPad vertically trying to take a horizontal image. I marvel at how much of the detail has been wasted. If the subject lends itself to a vertical print, hold the camera so it takes a vertical shot. If the subject lends itself to horizontal, hold the camera that way and fill the frame with as much of the area to be printed as possible.

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Apr 25, 2019 18:03:40   #
cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast
 
fehutch wrote:
Don't crop. Keep the whole image. Never know what you're gonig to need until you need it...


Always keep the original unaltered.

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