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Photographing Oil Paintings
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Apr 12, 2019 17:10:33   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
MDI Mainer wrote:
The real problem is that an artist will never be satisfied with the color rendition of ANY reproduction of their work -- be that print, slide, digital, etc. Nor are they ever satisfied with the color rendition of the actual work under different gallery lighting scenarios.

Since I have several in the family, I know this to be true from personal experience.

Plus, for digital, each display or monitor will reproduce the colors differently to some extent, and you have no control over what people will see.
The real problem is that an artist will never be s... (show quote)




This could be true as to satisfaction UNLESS you tell the artists, up front, that there will always be some discrepancies as to EXACT color reproduction. There is also a matter of budget and process. Problem is, as I alluded to in my previous post, as to differentials between paints, pigments and other mediums are not the same as dyes in film, papers, inks, or the color properties of pixels. You can get pretty darn close but exact replication is not always possible.

I have been dealing with this for a lifetime, not only with art pieces but with product photography, fabrics, and fashion work. If the client understands the limitations, their expectations will not be over the moon.

Another problem in my offering advice or suggestions, I have no idea in the OP's case, what the usage and final disposition of the copied images will be. Are they going to be made into high quality/high-resolution lithographic prints such as limited edition offerings, or what is known as a library or poster quality for items lie promotional postcards or inexpensive posters? Is the reproduction for books, magazines, advertising brochures or expensive "coffee-table" editions? Will they only be view online or on screens. Perhaps made in short-run (ink) prints. Each of these eventual usages has different degrees of color accuracy and much of the quality is budget-associated. Painting issues suicha as screen size, color-process- (how many runs thro the press) pre-press operation and treatments all facto in. Even a perfect digital file will not maintain its color integrity when reproduced in an economy priced printing process. Oftentimes a lower budget printing process will suffice nicely.

I have been through the entire process hundreds of times with color transparency, color negative, C- Prints, color separations, Xerography, and may kids of lithography as well as screen displays. It's just a matter of kind the final disposition or display type and presenting realistic expectations for the client.

I always tell artists that I am going to produce a reasonable representation of their work, but I am not trying to create a counterfeit knockoff. Most of the time they are very pleased with the results and are amazed at the degree of replication.

Weh the images go out online and end up on uncalibrated monitors, unfortunately, it's the wild wild west. 2-4-6-8-Don't forget to calibrate!

Under promise and over deliver- keeps the clients happy!

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Apr 12, 2019 18:27:39   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
BigDJim wrote:
I've been recruited by several artists to photograph their paintings where said photos will be used to enter competitions or used to publicize their work. The problem: color accuracy.

I'm not convinced that a digital camera (Nikon 750) and quality fixed lens (50MM) under practically any circumstances can accurately capture the various colors, hues, shadings etc of an oil painting. Camera color set at Neutral, White balance set for proper light temps (3200 Kevlar incandescent lights--2 of them at 45 degree angles), aperture settings at midrange for maximum focusing accuracy, equipment on tripod, painting mounted and shot on seamless black cloth background. Downloaded to Lightroom 5 with WB settings at either Automatic or Custom (shot at both settings with hardly any discernible differences).

After tweaking, adding color, fiddling with exposure, modifying color, saturation,and everything other thing I can think of, the artists still complain that an item from the painting isn't quite right...a flower is too blue, the sky is washed out, the wood on the table needs to be a deeper brown and the comments go on and on and on.

I personally think a digital camera under the proper set-up can very closely approximate a painting, but will never capture it with absolute, total accuracy.

With all the photographic expertise of men and women who's knowledge, experience and opinions I value here on Ugly Hedgehog can anyone shed any light on this problem (no pun intended)? Am I doing something wrong, or overlooking something I should be doing?

I've considered paying the exorbitant price for a color card kit, but have read that these are useless or else they are beneficial. Opinion split about 5o-50.

Thanks everyone for wading through this post.
I've been recruited by several artists to photogra... (show quote)

You can very easily correct colors in PS at a later point, it just takes a few curves adjustments in the color channels to get it spot on! But then, as mentioned ealier, do not forget to calibrate, or all those efforts are just flying out the door!

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Apr 13, 2019 04:09:50   #
Pablo8 Loc: Nottingham UK.
 
If the 'Artist' gets really nit-picky, suggest that he/she/ produces another painting to 'match' the original. See what they produce, if they ever take up the challenge.

Reply
 
 
Apr 13, 2019 06:43:20   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
Do you want good color or accurate color?
One is subjective, the other can be measured.
White balance isn't the only issue you'll have. Camera sensors have color biases. Reds, greens, blues register differently. The X-Rite Color Checker not only gives accurate white balance; used correctly, it will render other colors more accurately than any other method.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/651253-REG/X_Rite_MSCCPP_ColorChecker_Passport.html
That's what I use to photograph art when I want accurate color.

The other issue is: what are the artists looking at when judging your product and comparing to the original?
Their (uncalibrated) monitor, a print?


BTW:Interesting spell correct of Kelvin:
Do you want good color or accurate color? br One i... (show quote)


Well at least you knew what he meant. Do you feel good, now?

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Apr 13, 2019 07:40:59   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
BigDJim wrote:
I've been recruited by several artists to photograph their paintings where said photos will be used to enter competitions or used to publicize their work. The problem: color accuracy.

I'm not convinced that a digital camera (Nikon 750) and quality fixed lens (50MM) under practically any circumstances can accurately capture the various colors, hues, shadings etc of an oil painting. Camera color set at Neutral, White balance set for proper light temps (3200 Kevlar incandescent lights--2 of them at 45 degree angles), aperture settings at midrange for maximum focusing accuracy, equipment on tripod, painting mounted and shot on seamless black cloth background. Downloaded to Lightroom 5 with WB settings at either Automatic or Custom (shot at both settings with hardly any discernible differences).

After tweaking, adding color, fiddling with exposure, modifying color, saturation,and everything other thing I can think of, the artists still complain that an item from the painting isn't quite right...a flower is too blue, the sky is washed out, the wood on the table needs to be a deeper brown and the comments go on and on and on.

I personally think a digital camera under the proper set-up can very closely approximate a painting, but will never capture it with absolute, total accuracy.

With all the photographic expertise of men and women who's knowledge, experience and opinions I value here on Ugly Hedgehog can anyone shed any light on this problem (no pun intended)? Am I doing something wrong, or overlooking something I should be doing?

I've considered paying the exorbitant price for a color card kit, but have read that these are useless or else they are beneficial. Opinion split about 5o-50.

Thanks everyone for wading through this post.
I've been recruited by several artists to photogra... (show quote)


If I am requested to do photography of something I have little knowledge in, I have the foresight to kindly decline. For you, lesson learned.

Reply
Apr 13, 2019 07:54:23   #
Nosaj Loc: Sarasota, Florida
 
Photographing other people's art!
Once, I posted on this site two images of paintings from an art museum in Palm Springs, CA. The images were great: color, contrast, lighting, clarity, etc. Within minutes after I posted them, I started to receive comments from Forum members strongly critical and even outraged at my committing the sin of exploiting other people's art for my personal benefit. Now, I see the lengthy comments in this thread with impressive technical information and suggestions as if this is indeed OK as a legitimate photographic endeavor. So, art there rules and conventions relating to this type of photography?

Reply
Apr 13, 2019 08:33:48   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
This can get quite involved. I worked with a photographer who specialized in making giclee prints of the artist's works. We used a rather elaborate setup consisting of studio strobes and chimeras. We also used a Macbeth Color Chart (initially). Once we established the photographic profile we needed, the chart was used only once in a while to check. We used a large format Epson printer for the final output on canvas. Artists found they sold more of the prints than their originals. But then, their originals were going for $60,000+ and smaller prints were being sold for around $100.

If you are careful and take time getting your setup correct, the rest is pretty much step and repeat. The only time any changes were made was when a new camera was purchased.
--Bob
BigDJim wrote:
I've been recruited by several artists to photograph their paintings where said photos will be used to enter competitions or used to publicize their work. The problem: color accuracy.

I'm not convinced that a digital camera (Nikon 750) and quality fixed lens (50MM) under practically any circumstances can accurately capture the various colors, hues, shadings etc of an oil painting. Camera color set at Neutral, White balance set for proper light temps (3200 Kevlar incandescent lights--2 of them at 45 degree angles), aperture settings at midrange for maximum focusing accuracy, equipment on tripod, painting mounted and shot on seamless black cloth background. Downloaded to Lightroom 5 with WB settings at either Automatic or Custom (shot at both settings with hardly any discernible differences).

After tweaking, adding color, fiddling with exposure, modifying color, saturation,and everything other thing I can think of, the artists still complain that an item from the painting isn't quite right...a flower is too blue, the sky is washed out, the wood on the table needs to be a deeper brown and the comments go on and on and on.

I personally think a digital camera under the proper set-up can very closely approximate a painting, but will never capture it with absolute, total accuracy.

With all the photographic expertise of men and women who's knowledge, experience and opinions I value here on Ugly Hedgehog can anyone shed any light on this problem (no pun intended)? Am I doing something wrong, or overlooking something I should be doing?

I've considered paying the exorbitant price for a color card kit, but have read that these are useless or else they are beneficial. Opinion split about 5o-50.

Thanks everyone for wading through this post.
I've been recruited by several artists to photogra... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Apr 13, 2019 08:36:59   #
Pablo8 Loc: Nottingham UK.
 
Nosaj wrote:
Photographing other people's art!
Once, I posted on this site two images of paintings from an art museum in Palm Springs, CA. The images were great: color, contrast, lighting, clarity, etc. Within minutes after I posted them, I started to receive comments from Forum members strongly critical and even outraged at my committing the sin of exploiting other people's art for my personal benefit. Now, I see the lengthy comments in this thread with impressive technical information and suggestions as if this is indeed OK as a legitimate photographic endeavor. So, art there rules and conventions relating to this type of photography?
Photographing other people's art! br Once, I poste... (show quote)


If you photograph a building/sculpture you are photographing another persons artistic craft.

Reply
Apr 13, 2019 09:01:39   #
donrosshill Loc: Delaware & Florida
 
You have been given a great deal of very good and useful information by several UHH members. Let me give you my view. The Original painting can never be matched completely, close but never the exact same. there are many reasons. At one time in my life I had the job of testing all new employees for color perception. We were a manufacturer of chemicals for use in Inks, colorants and various types of paper, coatings, colorants, etc.

1. Oil paint pigment vs color paper rendition vs digital spectrum rendition vs Kelvin degree of light vs substrate reflectivity and response to all of the above.
2. Every person has a different visual interpretation in what they see. Most Men are more color blind than women. Each eye does see slightly different, but the brain makes those changes. Now we throw in all the other variables. Various Camera manufacturers and the type of Sensor used in the Camera (Not all the same), The Laptop computer screen and all the different monitor types. Simply do your best with all the info the Hog's have provided.
Good Luck and enjoy.
Don

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Apr 13, 2019 09:23:29   #
Nosaj Loc: Sarasota, Florida
 
Pablo8 wrote:
If you photograph a building/sculpture you are photographing another persons artistic craft.


This is the point I made when my posting was attacked.

Reply
Apr 13, 2019 09:50:39   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Pablo8 wrote:
If the 'Artist' gets really nit-picky, suggest that he/she/ produces another painting to 'match' the original. See what they produce, if they ever take up the challenge.


Most clients won't complain unnecessarily, frivolously, or just because the want to be nasty. They have a right to complain if the are sincerely dissatisfied with the work or the product. In may instances, their complaints are justified and legitimate.

On this site, there are frequent post about dissatisfied customers- the photograhers complaing about and deriding their "terrible" clients. Seldom do the they post an image of the work in dispute. Occasionally, when they did, I tended to agree with the disgruntled client.

Truth be told, most of theses complaints arise becaue of three major issues, all of them are the fault of the photographer. The first one is easy- the photograher did not know what he or she was doing and handed over a poorly crafted job. The others are a bit more complex- the photographer did not properly educate the client as to realistic expectations and what the scope and limitations there are in any kind of photography. The third is financial and contractual issues- both parties have to fully agree, in advance, on all the stipulations in the contract as well as the financial aspects- no surprises! In many instances of disagreement there is no contract or formal written agreement and that is where the trouble begins.

Arguing with clients or making snide comments, after the fact, is no resolution to any issues or misunderstandings.

Any job where color matching is required should include a disclaimer, in the contract, to the effect exact color reproduction is not guaranteed because there are certin properties in paints, dies, stains, woods, metals, pigments, fabrics and many other materials that can cause adverse effects in photographic reproduction with film and digital imaging. Most logically minded folks, artist included, will understad this concept. If the photograher feels the client is askig the impossible, he or she has business to decline the assignment and of course, the potential client is free to seek out someone who can claim to be able to address their exact requirements within their budget.

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Apr 13, 2019 10:53:56   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Nosaj wrote:
Photographing other people's art!
Once, I posted on this site two images of paintings from an art museum in Palm Springs, CA. The images were great: color, contrast, lighting, clarity, etc. Within minutes after I posted them, I started to receive comments from Forum members strongly critical and even outraged at my committing the sin of exploiting other people's art for my personal benefit. Now, I see the lengthy comments in this thread with impressive technical information and suggestions as if this is indeed OK as a legitimate photographic endeavor. So, art there rules and conventions relating to this type of photography?
Photographing other people's art! br Once, I poste... (show quote)


Perhas the folks who took you to task for photographing artworks are TROLLS- who just saw fit to aggravate you. There are members aroud here that do that!

Firstly, the artists themselves come to photographers and ask them (us) to photograph their work for a multitude of purposes. There are business related needs for artists that sell their work. They may want to have records of all the works to maintain a portfolio- after all, once the sell a piece the can not show it to other folks in garnering more commissions- the process starts with photography. Others publish books of their work. There are books of compilations of masterworks from museums, galleries and collectors worldwide. I have dozens of them in my own collection. How do we teach our children and students about art?

Detailed photograh of art are made for insurance purposes, archival records, educational purposes, expert analysis and authentication of works by experts in other countries before actual pieces are shipped or visited for examination. All of this work is authorized by the institutions, collectors and owners of the art.

Without photography, how coud we all study and enjoy the art of all the living and past masters? Right here on this site, many members refer to works of the old masters, the artist of the renaissance, and the moderns masters. Could we all visit every museum and gallery? Myself, as a kid form Brooklyn, wanting to study portraiture and see the works of Gainsborough, Da Vinci, and Rembrandt- I wasn't able to visit the Vatican, the Louvre in Paris or the British Museum. I loved my posters of the Mona Lisa, The Blue Boy and the Man in a Golden Helmet!

Why should you not be able to enjoy the images of art that you made on a vacation trip? You are no breaching copyright laws, you are not charging admission to view theses images, you are not misrepresenting them or selling as originals or fine prints for sale! You are just sharing you experiences. You did not violate any museum or gallery restrictions on photography or flash usage!

There are photographs of everything from cave drawings to Picasso and everything in between and thereafter.

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Apr 13, 2019 10:56:41   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
The OP indicated that these photographs are to be used to enter contests and for use in brochures.

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Apr 13, 2019 11:01:58   #
AntonioReyna Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
I had a friend who is a well known artist, nationally. I would photograph his oil paintings for his use, sometimes in a studio with lighting and sometimes outside with natural light. With care, you can get a pretty accurate image.

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Apr 13, 2019 11:12:56   #
Chastles
 
I have done this a few times also. I first did this for family paintings over 100 yrs old and they came out great. Then I did this for a few painters that wanted to do printed reproductions of their work and I had major issues with them concerning colors. Cannot match the colors exactly and this is where the issues came in. One lady used a lot of yellows and gold in her landscape painting and then had issues with it being too much in the photograph. Several people thought it looked good but she wasn’t satisfied at all because it wasn’t exact. I do not offer this service anymore to customers as it’s too much of a headache and time consuming.

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