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Question for high MP (36mp and up) camera users
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Apr 2, 2019 06:30:46   #
Peterfiore Loc: Where DR goes south
 
The most beautiful tones I ever achieved was when, years ago, I shot 8x10 b&w and made contact prints. Super creamy tones.

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Apr 2, 2019 09:06:24   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
kymarto wrote:
Yes, true, but so what? I have had exhibitions with prints 2x3 feet, using images shot with a 12MP camera, and you cannot see any pixelization even at close viewing distances. Even if you could see the pixels and even with 8 bit files, it is nearly impossible to see the difference between two consecutive tonal steps. Pixelization, in any case, is easier to see when adjacent pixels have very different tonal values, such as the edge of a dark object against a light background, but this is the very antithesis of smooth gradation, where tonal values change slowly over a large area.
Yes, true, but so what? I have had exhibitions wit... (show quote)


Please remember that I am talking about the the recording of an image with high density sensors, leaving display capabilities for another conversation. It is my contention that if a high density sensor can record more 'subject' detail then it can also record more tone detail. After all both are dependent on light. Edge contrast will record subject detail but that is still light values as is tone

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Apr 2, 2019 09:07:40   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 


Thank you, that is a well done post.

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Apr 2, 2019 12:28:14   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Please remember that I am talking about the the recording of an image with high density sensors, leaving display capabilities for another conversation. It is my contention that if a high density sensor can record more 'subject' detail then it can also record more tone detail. After all both are dependent on light. Edge contrast will record subject detail but that is still light values as is tone


Not true really, as I've explained. Sensors themselves vary in three fundamental ways. One is amp noise. Let's leave that out for now.. Second is dynamic range. That is the range of light values the sensor can deal with. That deals with extremes and doesn't directly affect smooth tonal gradation. In any case that has no direct bearing on photosites size or density.

Next we have color depth. That is the size of the color space that the sensor can record-- deeper greens, reds, blues. That is clearly important and does have a direct impact on tonal gradation, but it has nothing to do with photosite density.

As to noise, which does have a bearing on tonal gradation at higher ISOs. That depends a lot on photosite size, so arguably you get better tonal gradations with less densely pa ked sensors with larger photosites

In an absolute sense, a higher MP sensor records more data, so it records more tonal values for a given area of the image, yes, but practically, as long as the pixels themselves can't be seen, it doesn't matter because any transitions between individual pixels is also invisible. Pixel density in that case only matters when the image is so large or so highly cropped that individual pixels become visible, at which point yes, higher-density sensors become more able to show smooth tonal gradations. But otherwise the quality of the sensor is much more important than the density of its photosites, and arguably a less densely packed sensor is superior for its better noise capabilities.

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Apr 2, 2019 13:48:49   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
kymarto wrote:
Not true really, as I've explained. Sensors themselves vary in three fundamental ways. One is amp noise. Let's leave that out for now.. Second is dynamic range. That is the range of light values the sensor can deal with. That deals with extremes and doesn't directly affect smooth tonal gradation. In any case that has no direct bearing on photosites size or density.

Next we have color depth. That is the size of the color space that the sensor can record-- deeper greens, reds, blues. That is clearly important and does have a direct impact on tonal gradation, but it has nothing to do with photosite density.

As to noise, which does have a bearing on tonal gradation at higher ISOs. That depends a lot on photosite size, so arguably you get better tonal gradations with less densely pa ked sensors with larger photosites

In an absolute sense, a higher MP sensor records more data, so it records more tonal values for a given area of the image, yes, but practically, as long as the pixels themselves can't be seen, it doesn't matter because any transitions between individual pixels is also invisible. Pixel density in that case only matters when the image is so large or so highly cropped that individual pixels become visible, at which point yes, higher-density sensors become more able to show smooth tonal gradations. But otherwise the quality of the sensor is much more important than the density of its photosites, and arguably a less densely packed sensor is superior for its better noise capabilities.
Not true really, as I've explained. Sensors themse... (show quote)




I appreciate your responses, they have helped me understand a few things. Plus you have confirmed my basic thought, "in an absolute sense" while explaining why in practical use it isn't a factor.
Thank you

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