phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

I can't argue that.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

LOL, keep it simple!

Almost time to be outside doing constructive things!

JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ

Utter nonsense. In fact, following the teachings of Jesus Christ would require one to be a progressive liberal. Ya'know, all that about feeding the poor, curing the sick, welcoming foreigners.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

Go back to sleep James.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

Quietly.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

True enough, for the last few days it has been nice here and I got a head start on clearing the fence on the upper pasture. It was great to be outside.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

I'm whining a bit because I have brush to clear and the Lyme carrying ticks are already out. Got to treat clothes, etc, with Permethrin. Close to taking me out in 2013.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

Oh, man! that is really some nasty stuff, keep an eye on it because it is said it can reoccur.
I think that here ticks are our state bird, I burn off the woods every year to keep down the brush and help with tick infestation. I have been bitten even with plenty of DEET, but luckily no serious side effects.
I keep the dogs and cattle treated to help discourage the little devils.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

Lol on the state bird! Lyme disease was first diagnosed in Lyme, Ct in 1975. The ticks now carry several different bacterial type diseases, not all of which are curable. I won't go into detail except to say it was several months of recuperation and I was lucky.

Check out Permethrin.

mwalsh Loc: Houston

I think you are debating a different topic than I. I don't do much without God...everything comes from It.

You can argue about logic and where it comes from all you want. I have not been arguing that issue.

I have been speaking to the Christian nature of our country and, I guess, the factual nature of God's written word. My only comment on logic has been your seeming attempt to prove that the Bible is the literal word of God because the Bible says it is. Or did I miss something? I think that is what you said.

I also don't assume that Christianity is the only logical religion. All religions are built upon incomplete views of God. Man cannot understand all that God is.

Perhaps you are just much smarter than I.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

I will, thanks.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Hahaha...right.

I'll refresh your memory.

You said:
Christianity can't take full credit for good solid moral principals in this world...other belief systems have them as well...they are universal t***hs.

A good portion of the founders were not Christians. They likely all believed in a Creator, but this country was founded on democratic principals and moral principals.

And I replied:

h yes it can, as unless God is presupposed, then no absolute morality can be justified.

Do other systems of thought posit a sort of good morality?

Sure, can they provide a logical justification for their existence?

No.

All humans have Gods law written on their hearts and as such, know what is moral or not.


Then you said:

Good moral principles likely pre-date the Bible, certainly pre-date Christianity. Jesus did not introduce good moral principles...He advocated for them. There is a difference.


So I replied:

God created the universe, God is the source of all morals, God's morality predates anything.

Without presupposing God, you can't have absolute morality. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it regardless whether you actually understand the argument I'm making or not.


Then you said:

When did God say this? When did God write this down? I think man (numerous men) wrote down that God said this.

I think Paul wrote most of what is in the Christian Bible. Was he not a man?

Perhaps God did write the original copy...it is theoretically possible.

God also dictated the Koran to the prophet...word for word...according to that book.

You can choose to believe that the Good Book is the literal word of God. That is a matter of faith, not fact or proof. Attempting to prove the Book is the actual Word of God with what is written in the Book will fail a basic logic test.

Faith in the divine revealed Word of God is not a matter of logic...its a matter of faith.

Maybe you should quit trying to prove what God "said" with logic or alleged facts...

Be blessed.

And so I challenged you to back up your several assertions that God cannot be proved, and the bible's self authentication cannot be proven.

You mentioned that morality predated Jesus and Jesus isn't the source of morality. I challenged you to give a justification for morality without presupposing Jesus.

I challenged you to give a justification for logic without Jesus.

That's where I got to that point.

Are you now going to back out like a coward? After all this bluster?





As I said...you've been arguing the lack of my ability to prove that God must exist and that His word is what He says it is....I'm challenging you to do more than assert.




Yes...you most certainly missed something. That is unless you want to say that you can be certain that the bible isn't the very words of God and then go on to explain how you could possibly know that; how you could know that an Omnipresent, Omniscient, Transcendent, Immutable being cannot write the words of scripture through men and have it be exactly what He wants it to be.

To know that you'd have to have all knowledge, which of course you don't. So as to who fails the logic test...that's you.



Is this something you "know"?

Ok...how could you possibly know this?

Answer: you can't.

And PS: Christianity IS the only logical position to hold, all other views fail logically at one point or another.



No, not smarter, just not rebelling against God that's all.

A Christian believes what God says, does what God says to do, and worships God above all else. I don't know what you are, but Christian you are most certainly not.

I'll call you to repentance just like any other non-Christian.

So...care to take a stab at justifying morality or logic or knowledge or anything based on your worldview or the worldview of any other other f**e religions you keep referring to?

Or were your comments just bluster?

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

I think you blew any respect some may of had for you....too bad the discussion deteriorated so badly.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

If you are replying to me, then ill only say, who cares? I’d rather please God than men.

When just pointing out basic Christian t***hs (Jesus is God, The Bible is God’s perfect and infallible word, God is the source of all knowledge and morality and everything else in the universe, and all other religions and gods are false) causes a loss of respect, thats to be expected.

I’d be worried if folks had no problem with what i say.

Jesus said:

John 15:18   “If the world h**es you, know that it has h**ed me before it h**ed you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world h**es you.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

Right! I was enjoying the exchanges you gentleman were having...food for thought. However, as the conversation progressed your demeanor seemed to diminish the impact of your supposed intended message. You're right in that you left the impression that you don't care what any may think and that led me to give much less credence to the discussion. Wh**ever....