sv3noKin51E

Bob, have never had any issues with either Adorama or any refurbished Nikon gear from them. Know your salesman, their policies. Pay a bit extra to ship via UPS, with guaranteed signature delivery and you shouldn't ever have a problem. Our refurbished cameras always looked and performed every bit like brand-new. I've never received a poorly-packed shipment from Adorama, that alone is worth 5 stars:)

Bipod

Warranted by whom? Kabushiki-gaisha Nikon of Shinagawa, Japan? Nikon USA?
The retailer? A "brand" (a non-person with no legal standing)?

Do you have the full terms of the warranty?

Can you prove that the warranty was extended to you at time of sale?

Is that warranty a valid contract (e.g. supported by consideration)?

What court has jurisdiction?

What rights do you have under the warranty?

What are the limitations?

Generally speaking, a warranty is only as good as the ethics and finances of
the person making it. Your chances of getting a warranty enforced in court
against a multi-national corporation and actually collecting enough damages
to make it worth your while are essentially nil.

You may prevail, but you will spend 100 times what the camera is worth
in litigations costs (just paying to Fed Ex a notices is expensive). Then if
you get a judgement, you wills pend 1000 times what the camera is worth
trying to collect it.

In Civil cases, justice is available for anyone who can afford it---at $300/hr.
Their law firm is on permanent retainer and probably defended hundreds of
similar cases last year. Your lawyer is some some guy you picked out of
the phone book.

And if a retailer made the warranty and it files for bankruptcy protection
(like Sears/K-Mart did), you may have to go to federal court to get a dime---
and you'll be in line behind all the larger creditors.

People who bought gift cards and extended warranties from Sears got a
reprieve on Feb 7, when ex-CEO Eddie Lampert bought the company for
his hedge fund ESL Investments. But it leaves Sears deeply in debt.
ESL is now responsible for $1.3 bn in customer warrranties. Of course,
it could file for bankruptcy at any time.

During his time as CEO of Sears Holdings (leading up to the company's
bankruptcy), Mr. Lampert received $4,334,739 in total compensation in
the form of stock.

His net worth is now estimated at $3.6 bn, while the average Sears employee
is now out of work (and looking for a job in retail in the slow season).

Of course members of the executive class must be compensated for their
wisdom and management expertise--which has been so brilliantly evendent
in the management of Sears. No one is more responsible than Mr. Lampert for
making Sears what it is today.

SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont

Greetings Bipod!

In essence, you are absolutely correct that a warranty is only as good as the ethics and financial stability of the person or entity that issues it. Because of this, people tend to want to deal only with what can be described as "trusted vendors". Those are ones whose actions have shown that they belong in that elite group.

Others who are not trustworthy may get customers, but won't keep them long! There are always those who want a "great deal" and don't understand the premise that if something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. There are plenty of examples of how people can get cheated, as I have seen discussed on this forum as well as in other places. And even the "trusted vendors" get complaints, but there are also people who start complaining even before trying to have a problem solved! After all, even the best companies can have employees who occasionally make mistakes...

As you point out, a lot of people got the shaft when Sears went out of business. It is a shame that a once great and trusted company came to such an ignominious end. Poor management decisions and execution are a great part of how this came about. Also, they abandoned the format that made them indispensable for so many years - the broad-based product sales through their catalogue. Perhaps they could not foresee or accept the computerized platform we see today. If they had adapted to the growth of online sales, perhaps they would have been able to keep going. Like Amazon. And Walmart is following suit. Along with a lot of other companies. Online shopping has become possible at so many places/stores through their websites.

It is definitely bad for people when a company or individual cannot be trusted to follow through on the agreements made, such as warranties issued. While it may not be worthwhile to pursue the fulfillment of a warranty that is not honored, people can not only never return to that vendor, but also they can spread the word about them through public media. At the other end of the spectrum, those who HAVE earned the "trustworthy" designation have plenty of return customers! Word of good service and reliability spreads throughout any community of people who value them.

Susan

Bobnewnan

Goodness, how did we get from refurbished cameras to Sears going under?

SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont

The same way we got from cameras new and used to cars new and used! Analogies that relate to a photography-based discussion! This one was in reference to Warranties and trust!

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

I always look at refurbished first. B&H and Adorama both sell refurbished in addition to used. Refurbished can be better than new. New products have undergone limited spot checking. Refurbished have been checked from the ground up.

Bobnewnan

dsmeltz: I think you have the best argument for refurbished. I also like the suggestion to wring it out when I get it and verify everything is as it should be. Again, thanks to all for your input. RMJ

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

"Used" is broad term and might be a little or a lot.

"Refurbished" in reality could be anything depending on many things but rest assured even when done properly, nearly all components are "Used".

Bipod

Hi, Susan,

I trust people that I know. How does one know a corporation?

B&H has always treated me well, and I thought I could trust them.
But then I found out they were screwing their Hispanics employees
(badly enough to be sued by the US Justice Department!).

Well, as it happens, I'm not an Orthodox Jew. That puts me on the
potential "screwee list". So how can I trust B&H?

I think one has to do business with people one knows--put faces to
the names--or at least talk to the bigshots on the phone.

Expecting some unknown entity to act ethically or even legally is a
forlorn hope. Justice is way too expensive--you won't be able to
afford it.

Old school East Coast companies were much less inclined to ripoff customers---
'cause you never who who might be a Gambino relative.
But Silicon Valley would overcharge Jesus for his cross--nothing
matters but money. They are brazen and fearless.

Not being Jesus or a Gambino, I try to deal with old school East Coast
brick & mortar companies that have a good reputation and aren't the subject
of federal lawsuits. Granted, ti's a smaller and smaller number.

I was doing business with a company called Comverse Network Systems
(formerly the highly regarded Boston Technologies) when Comverse's CEO,
Jacob "Kobi" Alexander was promoted to the FBI's Ten Most wanted List.
Yeah, an "honor" shared with John Dilligenger and hijacker D. B. Cooper.

Seems he had violated SEC securties regulations and then fled to Namibia
to avoid prosecution (with help form Israel's Mosad, tis' said).

In 2016 he cut a deal with the Justice Dept and returned to the US.
He gets a reduce sentence; Comverse's investors get the shaft.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fugitive-tech-ceo-kobi-alexander-returning-to-u-s-in-plea-deal-in-stock-options-case-1471974367

If you were I wanted for federal felonies--would we be able to cut a deal
with the JD? We are not rich and not have no friends in the Knesset--or in
Congress, I presume.

There is only one sin:: not being rich and well-connected enough! All else
will be forgiven.

It's so hard to keep track--who is the Master Race these days?--is it the Aryans?
The Han Chinese? The Hebrews? Who is "right by virtua of DNA?"

While the US may have fallen short of its principle that "All Men are Created
Equal" -- should we abandon that goal? However quant and unrealistic it may
sound.

Had you or I done what Kobi Alexander, did, we'd be sitting in Levenworth.
Kobi gets to serve in Israel. He was released in October 2018. "I'll get by,
with a little help from my friends..."

Too bad you and I--plus a million black defendents--don't have such friends.

There is one laws for the "haves" and DNA-endowed, another for tha "have-nots"
and misbegotten....