davefales Loc: Virginia

I have not seen this anywhere else. It should be of interest to all who are proponents/opponents of carbon taxes. Source: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-03/winter-wreaking-havoc-electric-vehicles


If there’s one thing electric vehicle owners are learning, it is that extremely cold temperatures are likely going to lead to frustration if they don’t take extra special care of their battery powered vehicles. Look at it as just another added benefit to "saving the world".

As we push through the cold that automakers are using as an excuse for poor sales this winter, customers of some companies – notably Tesla – are starting to realize that things are a little bit different with electric vehicles in the winter. Disgruntled owners of Model 3s have been widespread on social media and online forums, talking about numerous issues they’ve had with cold weather on their vehicles. People have complained about battery range draining and Model 3 door handles freezing up.

A new report by Fortune highlights several Tesla owners pointing out their issues: "My biggest concern is the cold weather drained my battery 20 to 25 miles overnight and an extra five to ten miles on my drive to work. I paid $60,000 to not drain my battery so quickly," said New Jersey based Model 3 owner Ronak Patel.

The pro-EV lot over at InsideEVs stated frankly back in December, "Cold weather demands a long range battery" before also encouraging people to shell out more money: "...if you reside in a colder region and can afford to spring for the long-range Model 3, then come winter, you’ll be glad you made that choice."

Salim Morsy, an analyst with Bloomberg, stated: "It’s Panasonic that manufactures Tesla batteries. It’s not something specific to Tesla. It happens to Chevy with the Bolt and Nissan with the Leaf."

Additionally, the door design that Tesla used for the Model 3 as part of its appeal to be "different" continues to come back and bite owners during the winter. As we previously had noted during a cold spell in Quebec late last year, owners were having difficulty getting their handles out from their recessed spots in order to open the doors to their car. This has left some owners complaining and others writing to Tesla (or even Elon Musk on Twitter) looking for a fix.

Pro-Tesla blogger Frederic Lambert was himself unable to get into his vehicle back in November when he documented his own issues in this hilarious video in which he couldn't get into his own car:



"Jesus Christ!" Lambert exclaimed about 53 seconds into the video, hands shaking from the cold, upon finally getting his door handle to pop out.

“What’s specific to Tesla," Morsy continued, "is the quality of manufacturing.”

Meanwhile, Andrea Falcone from Boston, who bought a Model 3 about two months ago, stated on Twitter: "I can't wait all day for this silly car."

As with everything, Elon Musk tweeted that there would be an over the air software update that would address how cars are holding up in cold weather. Given that the company can’t physically readjust door handles over the air, we’re guessing the fix will wind up being something that puts further pressure on an already drained battery. And recall, back in November, we had already reported that Tesla was going to "fix" these issues with a vague software update.

In terms of that "fix", it looks as though the only thing that was addressed was the window not always coming down after the door opened. Since there are no door frames on the Model 3 doors, the window rolling down is semi-necessary to help open the door once the handle has popped out.

In the release notes of its new software improvement in late 2018, Tesla said very little:

“Window position and charge connector locking behaviors have been optimized for cold weather.”
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A question: if you lived in Fargo ND and had to rely on renewable energy ONLY, what would you do when the temp is -33 and you had 2' of snow on your solar panels...and the wind stopped entirely (which has happened in England this year)? Move to Miami?

revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson

Battery operation is endothermic, that is the warmer the environment, the more heat the battery can take in and the stronger it is. If I'm wrong, well, correct me.

Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal

Dunno what's the problem- it has always been so. Nothing new. It gets cold every year.
Most camera manuals will tell you to keep a battery in your pocket to keep it warm.
I lived in Philadelphia decades past, and it was waay cold there in the '60s. There were block and oil pan heaters- and flat pad battery warmers. Basic thumb rule was 1/3 battery oomph went away at freezing temp, and another 1/3 at 0 degrees.
I had an old Ford Pickemup, so it was easy for me to drain the oil into one bucket, radiator into another, take the battery out, and take all in the house with me. Put them back just before starting. I had a pair of A/N Surplus wool blankets to throw on the engine to keep it warm. And always open the hood first- you may find a stray cat- or a skunk- keeping warm in there.
> if you lived in Fargo ND and had to rely on renewable energy ONLY < Start the generator, silly!

John N Loc: HP14 3QF Stokenchurch, UK

I've often thought about this. I was out on the tools in my younger days and experienced a very cold February. I'm pretty sure we didn't have a cloud in the sky all month and nary a light breeze at best. Sun was low in the sky in the South, and lower still up North.

The amount of energy we need we'll be using Carbons for a while yet, or Nuclear. It's messy, but clean in other essential parameters.

berchman Loc: South Central PA

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/tesla-have-fewer-problems-cold-weather-ice-vehicles (The abbreviation ICE=internal combustion engine.) There is also a Canadian video in which a Tesla owner simply hits the frozen door handle with his bare hand and it is fixed. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/30/how-to-freeze-proof-a-tesla-one-owner-says-give-it-a-smack.html

Reading all the comments on this Tesla forum conveys a much more balanced perspective than that conveyed by the right wing zerohedge source which, by the way, denies global warming.

fetzler Loc: North West PA

I have used WD-40 on Frozen doors in the past.

Electric cars are quite unsuitable for cold climates. Think about were your heat comes from. It is a by-product of your gas engine. I understand electric cars use resistance heating (Uses lots of battery power). I have friends with hybrids that complain about heat.

1Feathercrest Loc: NEPA

What in Hell do these electric car owners think they are saving? Manufacturing of the many heavy duty batteries requires fossil energy to produce & then fossil fuels are used to generate the electricity for recharging. ALL of these measures are LESS efficient than just using the fossil fuel (gas, diesel) for combustion propulsion.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Someday, we will have the perfect vehicle with the perfect fuel. Until then, we keep trying. Several friends drive a Prius, and they did fine in the recent sub zero weather.

Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM

👍🙏😎

Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM

Really? Some proof would be nice as I’ve never read zerohedge deny climate change, but it has questioned the elimination of the oil, coal and natural gas that provide 80% of the energy that makes US and global economies, health and living standards possible.

Their stance would be very similar to that of Bjorn Lomborg, a highly respected liberal climate warrior, and Julian Simon, and Jordan Peterson, and a host of others who understand the real science that exists as opposed to whines, whims, and wishes.

ssiretire Loc: Warsaw, KY

As am OTR owner/operator who ran the northeast a lot my trucks had block heaters which needed to be plugged into an A/C outlet when parked in cold weather. Seems like they could have a plug in heater for the battery case for battery powered autos. They need to be plugged in anyway for charging.

berchman Loc: South Central PA

Here is the proof you asked for.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-02/do-1901-expedition-logbooks-confirm-there-no-global-warming

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Between my twins, my wife and I, we own four Priuses. Here's the skinny on battery life with them:

> In a Prius (except for the Prius Prime), all power ultimately comes from gasoline. The computers and electric motors simply make much more efficient use of the energy released by burning gas.

>Regenerative coasting and braking turns the kinetic energy of movement into battery charge, when the computer turns one of the two electric motors into a generator. Mechanical brakes last well over 100,000 miles as a result...

>The electric motor gives the car a lot of low speed torque. The internal combustion engine doesn't kick in until it's needed. On level ground, with a full charge, that might not occur until 40 MPH in some models. When the battery is depleted to 20% or so, or the speed exceeds 42 MPH, or the demand for acceleration is present, the gas engine runs to generate power and drive the wheels. The transition is smooth as silk, due to the CVT (continuously variable transmission).

> Prius performance is best in Fall and Spring, when minimal use of HVAC is required, and temperatures are moderate.

> Battery charge life is reduced in Summer, primarily by electric air conditioning. So we lose a few MPG then.

> Batteries are less efficient in Winter. There is less usable energy in cold batteries, the heat is electric, and the rear window defroster uses some power, too. So we lose a few MPG then.

Overall, though, the Prius, Hybrid Camry, and some other hybrids get 50% to 100% more mileage than similar sedans with 4- and 6-cylinder engines. The Toyota hybrids are among the most reliable cars on the road. We have almost 180,000 miles on one, 165,000 on another, and under 65,000 on the other two. The first two burn maybe a quart of oil between 5000-mile changes, and feel like new when they have new tires and are freshly aligned. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

In extremely cold climates, the Prius is probably a better alternative than current all-electric vehicles. When you drain the battery, the gas engine recharges it.

Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM

Apparently you don’t read and comprehend very well...... the two year old article was showing the fallacy of one of the alarmists’ major pillars......that the Antarctic Sea has been severely affected by global warming with precipitously declining ice post 1950....doesn’t mean one doesn’t understand that climate changes.

Some key points you apparently missed were the series of quotes from the Telegraph.....

“new analysis suggests that conditions are now virtually identical to when the Terra Nova and Endurance sailed to the continent in the early 1900s, indicating that declines are part of a natural cycle and not the result of global warming.”


"We know that sea ice in the Antarctic has increased slightly over the past 30 years, since satellite observations began. Scientists have been grappling to understand this trend in the context of global warming, but these new findings suggest it may not be anything new.”


"If ice levels were as low a century ago as estimated in this research, then a similar increase may have occurred between then and the middle of the century, when previous studies suggest ice levels were far higher."

fantom Loc: Colorado

Nope, I'd hop in my Nissan Xterra and go anywhere I wanted.