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Settings for Indoor flash with overhead flourescent lighting
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Feb 3, 2019 10:16:19   #
Bullfrog Bill Loc: CT
 
Try this for starters. Auto color balance or fluorescent with green filter on flash
Flash set to TTL
Put the diffuser on the flash and angle it up 45 degrees.
Camera on manual
Shutter 1/125 or 1/60 if you are steady arperture f4 - f5.6 unless you need more depth of field
Set ISO so you get enough ambient light so background is exposed maybe -1 EV

Get there early and experiment.

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Feb 3, 2019 10:30:59   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
larryepage wrote:
Actually, because the fluorescent lights are plasma lights, a shutter speed of 1/60 or slower is necessary to avoid flicker effects...

And...we haven't mentioned...the SB800 will zoom to your lens focal length, up to about 100mm or so, if you are using a compatible lens.


Yes, I realize Fl are at everyday 60Hz, but my point was to hopefully not allow the Fls to contribute to the exposure at all. Say if using the Fls as an only light source you had an exposure of f/4 @ 1/60 s. And an exposure of f/4 @ 1/200 s sync with a strobe. Then with such a flash exposure the Fls at about 2 stops underexposed should have little effect on the exposure at all. Obviously distance will have to work in ones favor as well.

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Feb 3, 2019 10:43:48   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
foxfirerodandgun wrote:
I will be called on to take pictures of our church's Valentine Banquet. I will be using a D7200 with a SB-800 flash unit. The fellowship hall is fairly large with 12, two tube overhead florescent light fixtures. What settings for the flash unit & camera would anyone suggest useing. It will be at night so there will be no outside lighting to contend with. I haven't had really good results in the past with this setup used in this environment. The distances may be up close to 20 to 30 feet away and I will be mobile / no tripod. I've spot read the manual, and a SB-800 "cheat sheet" but do not feel confident with what I've read. Thanks for any & all suggestions that anyone would care to share.
I will be called on to take pictures of our church... (show quote)


Agree with others who have suggested you to some tests at the location. I would do it at least a couple of days before the event, so you have time to make any necessary adjustments.

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Feb 3, 2019 11:14:49   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Fluorescent lighting can be difficult to color balance even under the best of circumstances in that most of the tubes (lamps) have a discontinuous spectrum, usually in the red/magenta portion of the continuous spectrum. This can be problematic even in lamps that are designated as "daylight". If the white balance is set for daylight or electronic flash, it is likely that the resulting images will have a greenish cast that is difficult to fully correct in post-processing. Some older fixtures have a flicker issue that our eyes don't perceive but it can affect exposure and color response.

In digital photography, unlike in film work, the cameras automatic white balance can usually compensate for this deficit and yield decent color provided the fluorescent light is the main an only light source. You could probably work strictly with the available light at a high enough ISO setting, however, direct overhead lighting is usually unflattering in photography of PEOPLE. This overhead light tends to under-illuminate the eyes and eye sockets and causes folks to look tired or sinister. I realize you are not making "portraits" but I assume you are going to shoot activity candids at the party- folks mixing, dancing, relating to each other etc. Theses will be you closer up shots. For these shots, I suggest that you depend on your flash lighting- direct, modified or partial bounce. At the correct white balance for flash, you will get good skin tones and exposures as well.

For wide shots, all over images of the room, decor, you may be better off with available light and automatic white balance. The light on people's faces is not critical- you just want to shoot some establishing shots to show the venue etc.

NOW- if you want to mix light, the best scenario was suggested by CO and use the green filter so as to balance your flash to the existing light. THIS WILL REQUIRE PRE-TESTING for a number of reasons. It is likely that the automatic TTL and white balance systems will work as he indicated. The only problem I can foresee is that all fluorescent tubes and fixtures are not created equally. There are many types of different color values. Older fixtures and tubes can be very problematic in that there was a greater deficit in red/magenta light and they operate at a frequency that can cause exposure issues. The green filter on the flash unit may not be green enough to match the existing light. Over time, as some of the tubes are replaced, there can be many different color values in the same room. Only testing will tell exactly what you will be challenged with. The examples in CO's post and the one with the example worked well but those were done in a smaller area and only the latter one has a subject with skin tone for comparison.

I have lots of experience with this kind of light in that I have covered many wedding receptions, fundraising events and other such functions in legion halls, church recreation room and business premises with overhead fluorescent lighting. Oftentimes, I had no opportunity to pre-test the area so I usually depend on flash as I have suggested. To open up the backgrounds and create more dimensional lighting I do use multiple flash or bounce techniques.

In your assignment, if my assumption is correct, folks will be mostly interested in the activities and the people pictures. Wide, establishing, shots and records of the decor are not as critical. If you have a chance to make tests, bring a person with you and check out the lighting affects and effects I have mentioned.

If you were not pleased with prior results at that location, perhaps some of the aforementioned issues were prevalent. Let us know what you think.

Good luck!

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Feb 3, 2019 11:38:02   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
This is a real quandary as Ed S has said. Did I say that I HATE fluorescent light? As Ed said with different fixtures and different lamp & ballast types its impossible to determine color temperature accurately when entering a room. In some cases even a color meter doesn't help as there are multiple kinds of light. I completely agree with Ed's recommendations and would add one of my own. Use a color checker, or even a 18% grey or white card, in a few shots just to get some assistance with color balance. I find this, shooting raw and using Lightroom gets me decent results most of the time. There are times, and places when good color is just about impossible. I've shot in one of THOSE gyms, with so many different light fixtures, bulbs and flickering that I pulled my hair out to no avail. I just could not get good color on two basketball players with different skin colors no matter what I did. Everyone I know also hates this place! Best of luck.

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Feb 3, 2019 11:58:43   #
pendennis
 
One of the things I used to do when doing photos in a fluorescent-lit hall, was to put an FD filter on the lens, and tape a piece of clear green gel over the flash head. This went for on-camera as well as stationary lights.

The FD filter would correct for all lights, both fluorescent and flash.

With a digital camera, you also have the option of correcting in your editing software.

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Feb 3, 2019 13:01:44   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Fluorescent lighting can be difficult to color balance even under the best of circumstances in that most of the tubes (lamps) have a discontinuous spectrum, usually in the red/magenta portion of the continuous spectrum. This can be problematic even in lamps that are designated as "daylight". If the white balance is set for daylight or electronic flash, it is likely that the resulting images will have a greenish cast that is difficult to fully correct in post-processing. Some older fixtures have a flicker issue that our eyes don't perceive but it can affect exposure and color response.

In digital photography, unlike in film work, the cameras automatic white balance can usually compensate for this deficit and yield decent color provided the fluorescent light is the main an only light source. You could probably work strictly with the available light at a high enough ISO setting, however, direct overhead lighting is usually unflattering in photography of PEOPLE. This overhead light tends to under-illuminate the eyes and eye sockets and causes folks to look tired or sinister. I realize you are not making "portraits" but I assume you are going to shoot activity candids at the party- folks mixing, dancing, relating to each other etc. Theses will be you closer up shots. For these shots, I suggest that you depend on your flash lighting- direct, modified or partial bounce. At the correct white balance for flash, you will get good skin tones and exposures as well.

For wide shots, all over images of the room, decor, you may be better off with available light and automatic white balance. The light on people's faces is not critical- you just want to shoot some establishing shots to show the venue etc.

NOW- if you want to mix light, the best scenario was suggested by CO and use the green filter so as to balance your flash to the existing light. THIS WILL REQUIRE PRE-TESTING for a number of reasons. It is likely that the automatic TTL and white balance systems will work as he indicated. The only problem I can foresee is that all fluorescent tubes and fixtures are not created equally. There are many types of different color values. Older fixtures and tubes can be very problematic in that there was a greater deficit in red/magenta light and they operate at a frequency that can cause exposure issues. The green filter on the flash unit may not be green enough to match the existing light. Over time, as some of the tubes are replaced, there can be many different color values in the same room. Only testing will tell exactly what you will be challenged with. The examples in CO's post and the one with the example worked well but those were done in a smaller area and only the latter one has a subject with skin tone for comparison.

I have lots of experience with this kind of light in that I have covered many wedding receptions, fundraising events and other such functions in legion halls, church recreation room and business premises with overhead fluorescent lighting. Oftentimes, I had no opportunity to pre-test the area so I usually depend on flash as I have suggested. To open up the backgrounds and create more dimensional lighting I do use multiple flash or bounce techniques.

In your assignment, if my assumption is correct, folks will be mostly interested in the activities and the people pictures. Wide, establishing, shots and records of the decor are not as critical. If you have a chance to make tests, bring a person with you and check out the lighting affects and effects I have mentioned.

If you were not pleased with prior results at that location, perhaps some of the aforementioned issues were prevalent. Let us know what you think.

Good luck!
Fluorescent lighting can be difficult to color bal... (show quote)


Excellent explanation and advice. I used to fight the fluorescent, incandescent, mercury vapor and various other mixed light sources shooting with film and video, and it was not easy. On a video shoot in a manufacturing plant, in order to balance foreground 3200 sources with mercury vapor backgrounds, we used different filters on our foreground lights and the camera. We found the right combination by trial and error. We are fortunate to have much simpler solutions today. >Alan

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Feb 3, 2019 13:07:23   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
foxfirerodandgun wrote:
I will be called on to take pictures of our church's Valentine Banquet. I will be using a D7200 with a SB-800 flash unit. The fellowship hall is fairly large with 12, two tube overhead florescent light fixtures. What settings for the flash unit & camera would anyone suggest useing. It will be at night so there will be no outside lighting to contend with. I haven't had really good results in the past with this setup used in this environment. The distances may be up close to 20 to 30 feet away and I will be mobile / no tripod. I've spot read the manual, and a SB-800 "cheat sheet" but do not feel confident with what I've read. Thanks for any & all suggestions that anyone would care to share.
I will be called on to take pictures of our church... (show quote)


Manual on your camera, TTL setting on the SB-800. I like to either aim the flash unit up into a reflector like the Flash Bender by Rogue, or, tilt the flash up and behind me and bounce off the ceiling and walls.
I like to set up my ISO to like 6400 to 12000 and use a shutter speed around 30-60 sec. I will make small adjustments using the exposure comp on the flash.
When you first get their take several test shots to get your exposures down and then turn it loose baby.

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Feb 3, 2019 13:34:36   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Here's a page out of my old Kodak Professional Photoguide. Although pertains to film, it gives you some insight into all the different types of fluorescent tubes that you might encounter and this chart does not include some of the more up to date electronic fixtures and tubes which operate with a different kind of ballast and probably have different spectral characteristics. You will notice that the filter packs for many of these light sources introduce significant degrees of correction.

Pendennis' suggestion of an FLD filter has some merit. These filters were originally intended for shooting with daylight balanced film under fluorescent illumination. I use it successfully and extensively with color negative film in that I could get into the ballpark with the filter and fine-tune the color balance in printing. This may work well with fluorescent lighting, a green filter on the speedlight and the camera set for daylight or electronic flash white balance. The color balance may be close enough to fully correct in post-processing. I still have my Sing-Ray FLD filter. If you have a similar filter handy, it may be worth a shot to include in the test. As you can see by the chart, the filtration requirements for the film were very complex and even with this information, extensive testing was requre especially with transparency films. Emulsions varied for a batch to batch, long exposures or bellows extension introduced reciprocity law failure which required even more filtration. It still amazes me how custom and automatic white balance controls in digital cameras negate most of these gremlins.

Sometimes I have to shoot an architectural office or factor interior that is lighted by fluorescent. If there are no people or any action to cover, an auto or custom white balance will usually suffice. If I have to fill in the shadows, I can usually find a fluorescent fixture with matching tubes to hang on a light stand to provide fill.

Some folks complain that fluorescent the lighting in their workplace gives them headaches and eye discomfort. As a photographer, fluorescent lighting has always been a pain of a different kind, however, digital photography is my Aspirin.


(Download)

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Feb 3, 2019 15:47:27   #
Don_G Loc: Houston, TX
 
I shoot for my church in similar room. I have found my best results are when I let the camera to the work for me. I find auto white bal will solve the problem of the mixed lite for overhead and flash better than I can. The settings that have worked best for me is ISO 1600 and AV mode as required to keep a reasonable shutter. Flash, if required, bounced off the ceiling in TTL mode takes away the shadows. I use a Canon 80D with 18-55 IS lens. Be good if you can try some of these suggestions before hand. Remember that the IS lens will allow you 2-3 stops hand held so that gives you a lot of help with the lighting.

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Feb 3, 2019 15:54:32   #
foxfirerodandgun Loc: Stony Creek, VA
 
Thanks to everyone for your help & suggestions. The room is basically a open and almost square one so I will try a number of the suggestions to see which one will produce the better images. I have total access to the church 24/7 so this will not be a problem. I've been asked to take pictures of each couple, or individual, as they enter the room before the dinner begins and then one while in the Valentine themed prop.

I'll probably limit the range of each shot so as to not be to far away with the flash set to TTL BL. I also have the camera set up for RAW then jpeg so PP the RAW images should not be an issue. This should prove to be a very good learning lesson for me. Hopefully, all of the input in this thread will also be helpful to others as well. Thanks again.

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Feb 3, 2019 16:06:41   #
throughrhettseyes Loc: Rowlett, TX
 
I believe the D7200 has the Nikon Lighting System built in with the pop up flash. Use the pop up along with the SB800 on a off camera slave on a tripod/light stand for fill on those lover shots. Practice off camera slave flash with you tube videos before you go. 90% of pro photographers use an off camera flash.

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