brddog

Hello all,I am new to the forum.I am in need of some advice,I have a canon 450d and would like to move up.I am still a novice and cannot afford the top line.I really don't know what to buy.any advice would be great.Would like to stay with canon. thanks Ken

RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia

Have you considered a midrange Canon product like an 80D?

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Welcome aboard brddog!

Your EOS 450D / Rebel XSi is a fine camera. You mentioned working within a budget, but not how much. Newer bodies will have a number of features added in the 10+ years since the XSi was a new camera. A few features that might help are much larger files with a higher pixel resolution letting you crop into the image for the details. Newer cameras also perform better in low light where you can use higher ISOs with less noise, without resorting to the flash.

You didn't mention your lenses. There are many lens options that cost less than a new body that can breath new life into your camera. Older, lower quality lenses on a newer and higher resolution body will only emphasize the need to upgrade your lenses, possibly generating more expenses where you might have already exhausted your budget on the camera. You might pause for a moment and consider whether a new lens or few would be a better investment than a new camera body.

brddog

I have 10-22mm 18-55mm 55-250mm and 100-400mm lenses.I was looking at a sigma 150-600 also.the 6d mark ll and the 80d are 2 I have looked at.

Haydon

Judging by your lens selection, you might be best to stay with an APS-C sensor. The 80D would be a great choice.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

The 80D is a nice camera but it's getting old. Not so old that it shouldn't be on your short list but its replacement should be coming along soon. Something similar to the 80D but with newer technology and performance improvements is the M50. It has the same 24 megapixel resolution as the 80D, is faster and several hundred dollars cheaper than the 80D, all wrapped up in a smaller, lighter package than the 80D.
I'm suggesting the M50 because I have both the 80D and the M50 and although you will need an inexpensive adapter to mount your lenses on the M50, the M50 offers more bang for your bucks. I now use my M50 far more than my 80D and it does a great job. Plus, mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras are the future of digital photography and the M50 is a nice step towards the future. The only real disadvantage to the M50 vs the 80D is, you will need to get extra batteries. MILC'S are all electronic and a bit smaller than DSLR'S, so battery charge life is considerably less, about 270 vs 950 shots per charge. This is mainly because the battery is considerably smaller, thus easy to carry a spare or two.
You can get a good quality EF to M lens adapter for under $100 USD, just avoid the cheapest ones.

brddog

thanks guys for your help

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Good option.

khorinek

I would go with the 80D or consider a 7D or 7D II. They will work with the lenses you have. The 6D II is a full frame camera and most of your lenses wont work on a 6D II.

PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA

I, also, would suggest the 80D as I have one and love it. It has many features the EOS 450D / Rebel XSi doesn't and you will appreciate many of the new conveniences. I would not call it midrange, I prefer the term enthusiast while the XSi is a beginner model.

As for the Sigma 150-600, I wound up chosing the Tamron G2. The Sigma Sport, the best of the 3, is noticeably heavier and more expensive. I felt the Tamron was better than the Sigma Contemporary.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

If you go with a 6D, none of the lenses you own will work with it except for the 100-400. That's because the full frame bodies will only accept EF lenses and will not accept EF-s lenses. But a 6D would be a substantial upgrade over your 450. You can probably find a used 6D and a lens or two to add to the 100-400 that you already own.

My suggestion is to buy the most camera you can get in your budget. But to consider lenses too because you might not be happy with just a new body.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

Used 5D III's can be cheaper than 6D II's FWIW.......You should only consider full frame if you are going to be doing serious landscape work ....IMO.

revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson

The 80D is a top notch camera. If you have been using the 450 for 10 years, you'd be using the 80D at least that long. Especially since you have a fine selection of lenses. I'm a fan of the 18-135 for a great walk around lens.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

You have a lot to choose from... Any of the current Canon APS-C (crop sensor) cameras would be an upgrade, more or less.

You can choose from Rebel T7 (EOS 1500D), Rebel SL2 (EOS 200D), Rebel T7i (EOS 800D), EOS 77D, EOS 80D or EOS 7D Mark II.

All but one of the current models offer double the resolution of your current camera. Where your 450D (XSi) has a 12MP sensor, all but the 7DII now have a 24MP sensor. The 7DII uses a 20MP sensor, which would still be a significant increase in resolution.

In addition, all the newer models are usable at much higher ISO than your 450D. Where your camera has a 100-1600 ISO range, the newer models have native ranges as great as 100-25600 (four stops higher) and expansion ISO with another stop to 51200).

The least capable new model is the entry-level Rebel T7/EOS 1500D. It's similar to your camera in many respects other than the sensor, even has slightly slower max frame rate. But it has a brighter LCD screen and a few other enhancements, when compared to your camera that was intro'd in 2008. One of the reasons the T7 has limited frame rate is the processor it uses is an old one, no different from several previous models. Canon must have a backlog of Digic 4 processors they're trying to use up! (Your 450D's Digic III processor is only one generation older.)

The next step up Rebel SL2/EOS 200D is one of the smallest and lightest DSLRs made by anyone (it's a few grams heavier than the preceding model, which WAS the lightest). There are a number of upgrades compared to the T7/1500D... the SL2/200D uses a much newer, much faster, much better Digic 6 processor and, most noticeably, an articulated LCD screen. It also has a self-cleaning sensor (lacking from your camera and the T7/1500D, the ONLY current Canon model without that feature).

The relatively simple AF system of the Rebel T7/EOS 1500D and SL2/200D will look familiar to you. It's essentially the same as the 9-point AF system in your camera, with one higher performance "dual axis" focus point at the center. It likely performs slightly better in the newer models because of their newer processors.

Another difference is that the SL2/200D has Canon's Dual Pixel Autofocus, which hugely improves the speed of AF in Live View. The T7 lacks this, but all the other current Canon models have it.

Step up to the Rebel T7i/EOS 800D for a more advanced model, using even newer Digic 7 processor and with a much more advanced AF system. In fact, it inherited a lot of the 45-point AF system that was introduced a year or two earlier in the 80D. All 45 AF points are the higher performance dual axis/cross type. There are also up to 27 points that are "f/8 capable" (the number varies depending upon the lens being used). The above models and your camera are "f/5.6 limited", which means that they cannot autofocus an f/5.6 lens with a 1.4X teleconverter or an f/4 lens with a 2X teleconverter. In other words, the "f/8 capable" cameras, including T7i/800D and all the following models, are able to use more lens/teleconverter combos.

The next higher model EOS 77D is actually very similar to the T7i/800D. The primary differences are that it has additional LCD display on the top, right shoulder and added dials and buttons for somewhat more direct access to some camera functions. It's no longer being called a "Rebel" in the N. American market, but it shares many features with Rebel-series cameras, including a penta-mirror (instead of a pentaprism) to save weight and cost, a lower specification shutter with top speed of 1/4000 and a flash sync of 1/200. The durability rating of the Rebel series is not always cited by Canon, but tends to be around 75,000 "clicks" or shutter actuations.

Next step up is the EOS 80D. As mentioned, the AF system is much the same as the T7i/800D and 77D... however the 80D has Micro Focus Adjustment feature that allows users to fine tune the focus accuracy of up to 40 specific lenses on the camera. The models above lack this feature. It's only found on the 80D and higher models currently.

80D and higher models also use a true pentaprism (instead of the penta-mirror found in Rebel series) for a bigger, brighter viewfinder. Plus, 80D an higher models use a higher specification shutter with top speed of 1/8000 and flash sync of 1/250 (versus 1/4000 and 1/200). Also, I think the 80D is rated for 150,000 shutter cycles. 80D was intro'd earlier than any of the above and uses Digic 6 processor, but has a larger buffer and bit faster frame rate anyway.

EOS 7D Mark II is Canon's current top-of-the-line APS-C model. It's actually now their oldest APS-C model still in production. It uses a very high performance 65-point AF system that's very user-customizable. It also has a discrete chip running the AF system (like the 1D-series cameras). All the above cameras use a single processor for everything. The 7DII also has dual Digic 6 images processors, enabling it to have the one of the fastest frame rates of any current DSLRs. It also has dual memory card slots (one Compact Flash, one SD). It lacks a lot of the more highly automated settings found on the above models, but still has the basic auto exposure modes and the "point n shoot" A+ mode). 7DII is durability rated for 200,000 shutter cycles. The 7DII doesn't have an articulate LCD screen, like the 80D, 77D, T7i and SL2 do.

80D has more sealing for dust/weather resistance than the other models above. The 7DII is even better sealed and also uses magnesium exterior panels.

80D and 7DII both use LP-E6/E6N batteries, which are considerably larger and have higher capacity than those used in the other models mentioned. This gives the 80D and 7DII more shots per charge.

80D and 7DII also both can optionally be fitted with a battery grip, which doubles their battery capacity as well as providing vertical controls which are very nice to have when using the camera in portrait orientation frequently. Canon doesn't offer battery grips for the other models (there are third party grips for some, but they're a bit clumsy).

The 80D and 7DII... and 77D and T7i/800D, for that matter (as well as all the full frame models)... have a new feature Canon calls "Anti-Flicker". Fluorescent, sodium vapor and some other types of lighting actually cycle on and off rapidly... 60 hertz or 60 cycles per second in the U.S. We don't notice it with our eyes, but it sure messes with our cameras! It causes a lot of under-exposed images. This new feature is neat! What it does is detect the light cycle and time the shutter release to the peak output of the lights. I've been using it with a pair of cameras for two years and can tell you IT WORKS! At some venues I shoot often, where they use those types of lights, I used to see about half my images under-exposed... sometimes so much that they were unrecoverable (even tho I shoot RAW). Now using Anti-Flicker I only see the occasional image spoiled by the lights, shooting in those same locations. You might think the camera delaying shutter release to match the light cycle would cause an unacceptable shutter lag. Very rarely, it does. So for that reason I'm careful to turn it off when not shooting "under the lights". But I usually don't notice any delay at all (makes sense, since the lights are cycling so fast we don't notice it with our eyes).

There are other features such as WiFi, GPS, etc. in some of the cameras. These use a lot of battery power, so I avoid them and don't know much about them.

You can find more detailed comparisons here:

https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-77D-vs-Canon-EOS-450D
https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/canon-450d-vs-canon-77d

I also recommend the detailed reviews of all the above models at:

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/
https://www.dpreview.com/

Any of the above camera models will be able to use any Canon lenses you already have for your 450D. They probably will also be able to use any third party lenses (there occasionally are issues with older 3rd party lenses not working properly on newer cameras... the lens manufacturer may be able to correct the problem).

If you purchase any of the above cameras in kit with one or more lenses, be a little careful. The more entry-level models are often bundled in kit with a Canon EF 75-300mm "III" lens, which isn't all that great. The Canon EF-S 55-250mm IS STM lens sells for about $100 more but is a MUCH better lens that's well worth the add'l cost.

You might already know, Canon lenses come with different autofocus drives. The most entry-level lenses use "micro motor" focus drive, which is slower and noisier. The lenses using this aren't marked "STM" or "USM".

STM lenses use a "stepper motor" that makes them faster and a lot quieter. They are largely preferred for video, among other things.

USM are "ultrasonic" focus drive lenses and are the fastest of all and are largely are preferred for action photography.... USM lenses are quiet, but most are not as quiet or smooth as STM.

Many Canon lenses also have IS or "Image Stabilization" built in.

However a few of the newest Canon USM lenses use what they call "Nano USM", which is both fast as USM and very quiet like STM. Only a few lenses are using this focus drive, so far. The EF-S 18-135mm IS USM lens is one of them that's often bundled in kit with some of the above cameras.

The above cameras are also fully compatible with many other OEM accessories, such as Canon EX-series flashes, both current and previous models.

Hope this helps. Have fun shopping.

EDIT: The EOS 6D Mark II is a full frame camera. It will not work with your EF-S lenses, so plan on the cost of replacing those too, in addition to the cost of the camera. To have similar range with full frame, you'll need at least a 16-35mm and a 24-70 or 24-105mm. Those will cost between $2000 and $4000, on top of the cost of the camera. If you use the 55-250 a lot, you may also want a 70-200 or 70-300mm, another $500 to $1800. And if you use the 100-400mm a lot at 400mm on your 450D, you'll need a longer telephoto, too... such as the Tamron 150-600mm G2 or one of the Sigma 150-600mm.... that's another $1000 or more. Of course, you'll be able to sell off your EF-S lenses and old camera for a few hundred $ to help offset some of the cost. The full frame-capable lenses will also be bigger and heavier.

6DII is a fine camera, though only 26MP (above APS-C models are all 24MP). Other than sensor format and a few other things, it's similar in many ways to the 80D. Even uses essentially the same 45-point AF system. Some 6DII users complain that the cluster of AF points is too centered in the full frame camera, as if Canon didn't fully scale it up to match the larger format. Compared to the 80D, 6DII also uses a lower specification shutter... top speed 1/4000 and flash sync of 1/160 or 1/180. I am not sure the 6DII's durability rating... probably similar to the 80D.

I don't entirely agree about switching to one of the mirrorless cameras, like the M50. Yes, they've have come a long way. But it still depends a lot upon what you shoot. If you ever shoot fast action such as sports or wildlife, a USM lens on one of the DSLRs with their viewfinder based phase detection AF array is faster and better at tracking movement, than the Dual Pixel AF and STM lenses that the mirrorless cameras use Their AF is something similar to the DPAF used in Live View on the current DSLRs.

There are also very few "native" lenses for the Canon M-series cameras... only eight of them, last time I looked.... the widest being 11mm and the longest focal length 200mm, and all of them using STM focus drive only. There aren't a lot of third party lenses being made for them either. If the available lenses don't meet your needs, you can adapt EF or EF-S lenses to use upon it. By the time you add an adapter to a lens (more added cost), you won't have saved a whole lot of size and weight by "going mirrorless".

Mirrorless cameras also are "hard on batteries".... they get far fewer shots per charge (compounded by the fact that MILC use a very small battery to save size and weight). Those with one use an electronic viewfinder that draws power continuously. And mirrorless without a viewfinder instead use the rear LCD screen continuously while shooting. In contrast, the optical viewfinder of a DSLR, which essentially requires no power and the rear LCD screen is only used for image review and menu access.

For many purposes, these may not be an issue. But for sports/wildlife action shooting and anyone who shoots high volume, most shooters still prefer a DSLR. I would need to buy and carry at least 2X to 3X as many batteries to shoot sports events with a camera that can't keep up with the action as well as my DSLRs and USM lenses do. Between what's in the grips of my three cameras and the backups in my photo vest, I currently go to a shoot with 12 batteries. If I switched to mirrorless I'd need at least 24... maybe even more. That would be at least an additional $600 expense!

Also, it's really unclear right now if Canon is going to continue the M-series camera line or if they are instead going to come out with an APS-C format version using the new RF mount of the EOS R. And, the M50 (in particular) is one of just two or three of the newest Canon models using Digic 8 processor and the new "CR3" RAW file format, which may not be compatible with software you're using (more cost?). All the above APS-C DSLRs use the CR2 file format in RAW.

Yes, mirrorless are "the future", are making steady improvement and are a great option for a lot of things. But not for everything... yet.

brddog

wow thanks for the great info very helpful