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Cleaning black and white negatives?
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Jan 30, 2019 11:22:35   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
wishaw wrote:
Scan them and clean up in post processing


EXACTLY! Much simpler and less time consuming.

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Jan 30, 2019 11:32:32   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Dik wrote:
NO! NO! NO!
The first thing that idiot does is pick up the negative with his fingers in the image area. He's wearing a glove so he won't feel the grit that he's pushing into the emulsion.
Then he takes a dry cloth and scratches both sides of the film at the same time, using whatever abrasive filth happens to be on the film, and cloth.
He then says that if that doesn't work, and picks up a bottle of liquid cleaner...
Could not watch any more of this atrocity.
It made my want to sandpaper his eyeballs!
NO! NO! NO! br The first thing that idiot does is ... (show quote)


Yeah, that bothered me, too. First thing to do is get all the surface crud off that you can, using air or compressed gas (blower bulb or Dust-Off). Static charged film can be discharged and wiped with a clean Staticmaster brush.

The Anti-Staticum cloths do work if used on spots, but you must use clean ones and use them sparingly. I sometimes lightly moisten a corner of one with PEC-12 and wipe gently to remove mildew from slides.

https://photosol.com/pec-12-faq/

Years ago, pre-digital technologies, we bought PEC-12 by the case of quart cans in the lab where I worked. We filled up laboratory squirt bottles and put all the right warnings on them, then distributed them throughout film handling areas. PEC-12 was used to clean carded negatives (The negative cards crop-mounted single negatives for semi-automatic machine printing). We also used it for stubborn spots found on long-roll film.

Since we processed several miles of unperforated long roll 35mm, 46mm, and 70mm, plus 35mm perforated, 120/220, and sheet films up to 8x10 — each day — we had to keep it clean.

We used 3M film cleaners for long roll portrait film. They had adhesive rollers that picked up most particulates on the film. Those rollers would clean up to 1000 feet of film before they had to be removed, washed, and dried for 24 hours. We had 24 sets of them. They were great when we could get the operators to take care with them. They could ruin film if the operator was slack that day. We learned quickly to hire careful film cleaning people! Cleaning film in bulk is a boring job, but it does take care.

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Jan 30, 2019 11:34:06   #
Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada
 
I would soak them in running water @ 68 degrees for about an hour, then a quick rinse in PhotoFlo (or a few drops of dish soap to a gallon of water) at the same 68 degrees, then hang them to dry in a dust free area. I would not squeegee them because, if there are any dirt particles left on the film, it will scratch them.
If there are still dirt particles left after that, I would scan them and remove the particles in PP.

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Jan 30, 2019 11:37:31   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
therwol wrote:
Now that I've retired and have some time on my hands, I'm scanning all of my old negatives from around 1969 into the early 80s. When these were first developed (by me), any contamination I found after drying would come off with a brush or in some cases a little nudge with a Q-tip and alcohol. After all of these years, any contamination I'm seeing seems to be glued to the negatives on both sides. Dry cleaning methods no longer budge the stuff. I've tried solvent based cleaners. I've tried distilled water/Photo-Flo and PEC pads to wipe before drying. The best I can do is get about half of the stuff off before I become fearful of damaging the negatives.

Any ideas? Also what about dunking the negative strips in an ultrasonic cleaner and with what solution?
Now that I've retired and have some time on my han... (show quote)

Clean it in post if you can't remove it manually!

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Jan 30, 2019 11:38:43   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
DIRTY HARRY wrote:
What about color negs?


NO WATER on the emulsion side. Water is a last resort for sticky food-based goo. I always try other methods first, as mentioned above, then use distilled water on a swab to dislodge water-soluble goo like dried soft drink splatter, coffee...

Chromogenic films are tricky... Some can't even be cleaned with Isopropyl or PEC-12. Test your cleaning methods on a few unimportant negs of the same film stock.

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Jan 30, 2019 13:49:29   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
wishaw wrote:
Scan them and clean up in post processing


Time consuming, depending on how much contamination. I'd rather start as clean as possible.

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Jan 30, 2019 13:52:00   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
DIRTY HARRY wrote:
What about color negs?


I don't have nearly as much crud on my color negatives. (I'm scanning those too.) I'm not sure why except for my technique in washing and drying negatives I did myself.

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Jan 30, 2019 13:53:38   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
It sounds like you run the gamut of cleaning solutions. How about soaking them in water overnight?


I'm going to try that next. The stuff is absolutely glued to the emulsion. It was not so difficult to remove before sitting around for 45 years.

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Jan 30, 2019 13:54:56   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
burkphoto wrote:

Years ago, pre-digital technologies, we bought PEC-12 by the case of quart cans in the lab where I worked.


Still available in quart cans for about 75 bucks apiece.

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Jan 30, 2019 13:56:36   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Has anyone actually tried a short dunk in an ultrasonic cleaner? I don't want to buy one unless someone has had success doing this. I read that there are ultrasonic cleaning machines that movie studios use for this, but I would imagine they're quite expensive and involve a lot of cleaning solution.

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Jan 30, 2019 14:01:45   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
burkphoto wrote:
and dipped in Photo-Flo before a quick squeegee. Then it was hung to dry in a dust-free shower stall. My negatives are nearly all intact and pristine after as long as 50 years!


Squeegeeing film is dangerous. A squeegee blade can scratch a soft wet emulsion, by itself or by dragging tiny particles of dirt and whatever along with it.

I haven't looked for years, but there used to be photo-grade sponges available. Soft damp sponge wrapped around the filmstrip and pulling film through is much safer than a squeegee.

Or, if using Photo-Flo, the need for any kind of wiping is eliminated altogether.

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Jan 30, 2019 14:20:31   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
therwol wrote:
Still available in quart cans for about 75 bucks apiece.


Yeah, it's never been cheap! But it's the best stuff out there for removing organic crud and mildew from film. So long as mildew hasn't eaten into the film too far, it comes off with PEC-12 and light pressure from a swab.

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Jan 30, 2019 14:42:57   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Squeegeeing film is dangerous. A squeegee blade can scratch a soft wet emulsion, by itself or by dragging tiny particles of dirt and whatever along with it.

I haven't looked for years, but there used to be photo-grade sponges available. Soft damp sponge wrapped around the filmstrip and pulling film through is much safer than a squeegee.

Or, if using Photo-Flo, the need for any kind of wiping is eliminated altogether.


I squeegeed thousands of rolls of B&W and Ektachrome over the years. I never had any issues with scratches.

Photo-Flo works without any wiping in some localities, but not all. Local water used to mix it may leave a powdery residue on film where water drops cling. At least, it did in Charlotte.

Here's the key, taught to me by a camera store clerk and master custom printer in 1968: My Yankee squeegee was always cleaned in a few drops of dishwashing liquid and warm water immediately after use, and stored in a quart-size plastic bag, left open, but kept in a drawer. I'd always rinse it, then dip it in Photo-Flo (for B&W) or E-6 Stabilizer (for Ektachrome) before squeegeeing the film. NEVER use a dry squeegee, or a squeegee that has been stored out in the open to gather dust and grit. That's where the whole scratch issue came from. I used that same squeegee for 20 years.

Admittedly, most folks aren't that careful! But I learned from some pretty anal-retentive lab rats over the years. I've always had the attitude that keeping film clean, and cleaning it just before use, eliminates the need for spotting prints or digital files.

At the lab where I spent most of my career, we printed millions of school portraits from film every Fall (prior to film scanning in the early 2000s and digital capture in the mid-2000s). The most important thing we could do was to keep film, printers, film transports, and paper transports clean. It reduced the need to hire spotters to paint out the white spots on thousands of prints, using 000 brushes and difficult to mix color dyes.

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Jan 30, 2019 15:06:41   #
Bill P
 
When I had a home darkroom I was more careful than when I worked in a lab. I had filters on the incoming water, and for the final rinse, I used water from a reverse osmosis filter with photo-flo mixed in. And, I used a sponge wiper. Rarely did I get a scratch.

But I have always held film by the edges. One finger on each outside edge, like when loading from a bulk roll. When I find it necessary to grab anywhere within the same county as the image, I use cotton gloves.

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Jan 30, 2019 16:29:13   #
patman1 Loc: Pataskala, Ohio
 
I dont know if this helps but I have been cleaning my B/W negs for the last 40 years with alcohol. Initially, take negs from sleeve, remove dust, if any with blower and then wipe with dust free pad and alcohol. To date no scratches and all negs still perfect.

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