Beginners Warning
Aug 13, 2012 17:59:52 #
I ran across a tourist in our small town the other day who
revealed he was a new camera enthusaist (former P&S) and who
had recently spent a lot of his disposable income on a 'lower'
end DSLR. He was considerably concerned after having discovered
the added costs of getting off to a good start. (I'm afraid he was
somewhere south of astonished at the end of our conversation,
and I was trying to be encouraging.) He probably isn't alone.
Maybe someone here on UHH can catalog and construct a beginner's
guide for those graduating from P&S to (D)SLR, emphasizing Probable
extra costs for those who might get hooked on becoming a better
photographer. On a tight budget they might have to decide on a
smaller initial costs.
As a result I came up with my quick list of extra costs in
General priority:
Extra battery.
Extra memory cards. (probably larger and rated a 10 or
higher for those burst shots.)
Clear lens filter(s) for lens protection.
Cataloging software. (maybe not Lightroom at first, but
large images will add up rapidly. Is Picassa ok
for that or some other free/low cost solution?)
Post processing software. (Again maybe not Elements, but
what else is low cost/free for beginners?)
Safe storage by cloud, external hard drive, or other, etc.
Another lens sooner or later (one; not yet into Lens Lust!)
External flash unit.
Etc.
The list can go on and on forever...ND and CP filters, 'better'
software, more lens(es), a better or backup camera, or even a new
computer, etc. etc.
I realize that others will have their own priorities but this
would be just a general heads-up, and could hopefully Avoid
discouraging beginners. Nothing is more off-putting that finding
out your sunk-cost was just the beginning. (Oh, the tires
and engine are extra??) This fellow I met was dismayed...certainly
there are others who aren't well prepared for the extra 'necessities'
even if upgrading from a Point and Shoot.
(I may have missed it but I don't see any UHH threads on this...maybe
need a FAQ?)
Regards, Vern
revealed he was a new camera enthusaist (former P&S) and who
had recently spent a lot of his disposable income on a 'lower'
end DSLR. He was considerably concerned after having discovered
the added costs of getting off to a good start. (I'm afraid he was
somewhere south of astonished at the end of our conversation,
and I was trying to be encouraging.) He probably isn't alone.
Maybe someone here on UHH can catalog and construct a beginner's
guide for those graduating from P&S to (D)SLR, emphasizing Probable
extra costs for those who might get hooked on becoming a better
photographer. On a tight budget they might have to decide on a
smaller initial costs.
As a result I came up with my quick list of extra costs in
General priority:
Extra battery.
Extra memory cards. (probably larger and rated a 10 or
higher for those burst shots.)
Clear lens filter(s) for lens protection.
Cataloging software. (maybe not Lightroom at first, but
large images will add up rapidly. Is Picassa ok
for that or some other free/low cost solution?)
Post processing software. (Again maybe not Elements, but
what else is low cost/free for beginners?)
Safe storage by cloud, external hard drive, or other, etc.
Another lens sooner or later (one; not yet into Lens Lust!)
External flash unit.
Etc.
The list can go on and on forever...ND and CP filters, 'better'
software, more lens(es), a better or backup camera, or even a new
computer, etc. etc.
I realize that others will have their own priorities but this
would be just a general heads-up, and could hopefully Avoid
discouraging beginners. Nothing is more off-putting that finding
out your sunk-cost was just the beginning. (Oh, the tires
and engine are extra??) This fellow I met was dismayed...certainly
there are others who aren't well prepared for the extra 'necessities'
even if upgrading from a Point and Shoot.
(I may have missed it but I don't see any UHH threads on this...maybe
need a FAQ?)
Regards, Vern
Aug 13, 2012 20:05:24 #
Aug 13, 2012 20:41:35 #
no there is no cure. only death will end it. i dream of new lens every night,i have no life.
Aug 13, 2012 20:58:38 #
My perspective:
A tripod (forget the cheapies)
A cable release
Gray cards
lens cleaning kit: prefer the bulbs
A protective/easy access bag
Good hiking boots/shoes
topo maps
rain gear (live in Oregon)
an all-manual film camera
film
A tripod (forget the cheapies)
A cable release
Gray cards
lens cleaning kit: prefer the bulbs
A protective/easy access bag
Good hiking boots/shoes
topo maps
rain gear (live in Oregon)
an all-manual film camera
film
Aug 13, 2012 21:02:56 #
To cure lens lust, buy it (them.)
As to graduating from a point and shoot to a DSLR, the trick is getting bang for the buck, and get a good lens as opposed to a kit lens, which invariably have weaknesses to go with any strengths. Simply having a variable f/stop speaks to cheap design and limitations.
Unfortunately, the current best bang for the buck intro DSLR camera apparently HAS TO be bundled with a cheap lens, the Nikon D3200. 24 megapixels and EXPEED 3 processing make this $700 camera a no brainer if you are not tied to Canon and just coming up from P&S.
As to a filter for protection of the lens, GIGO matters. (GIGO is: Garbage In, Garbage Out) and this points to any filter placed on a camera lens. Good filters are not too cheap. As for me, I have 30+ year old lenses which have NEVER had a Skylight or other "protection" filter on them, and having done photojournalism, adventure travel, and studio photography with these lenses since the days of film, I can definitely say protection filters, even good ones, are likely a waste of money. Lens endangering events are simply too rare, and yes, I have shot a hurricane with no filter, at the ocean, in the almost sideways stinging rain, in 60 mph winds. Waves were breaking 100 feet high off a jetty. I cleaned the lens a LOT. But nothing got in the unprotected lens, nor damaged it. The camera was baggied up to the front of the lens. The wind was strong enough that when I turned from the blasting wind, my glasses flew off and into the ocean. OUCH. It was hard driving back to our shelter, a few miles inland.
As to low cost software, there's Graphic Converter on the Mac, and Corel Paintshop Pro on the PC. I think both of these software choices can make contact sheets, which, if done as PDF files, become a simple shoot based cataloging system.
For long term archival storage, there is M-Disc. Buy M-Disc instead of regular DVD stuff, and be happy. And EDIT. Save only the very best. M-Disc is FAR SAFER than the "cloud" or any competing technology.
As to burst rate photography, it is almost NEVER used by professionals. The point of having a motor driven camera is to keep your eye glued to the viewfinder. Then, the skill to learn is WHEN to click the shot. Burst rate often gives zero good shots, but developing an eye guarantees it in fewer frames. I once edited a 216 frame burst rate sequence of a model walking toward camera. Actually WALKING. Zero shots were good. None. Knowing that a walking shot is never actually "walking" would have meant 216 shots with enormous similarity and quality. In reality, you shoot maybe six shots to get a "walking" shot right. Each is a single click of the shutter at the height of the action. No burst mode needed.
Extra batteries. Buy Pearstone NiMH rechargeable AA batteries and a charger from B&H Photo. Use the batteries until the camera shuts itself off. THEN charge/replace with another charged set. Why Pearstone? Kinda cheap and kinda works well.
External flash. Save to get a good one, with modifiers from Gary Fong and others. The better the flash (Nikon SB-800/900) the more stuff is available from places like Cowboy Studio (which, though the stuff is enticing, they are slower than molasses in Antarctic winter as to delivery.) All good things to those who wait.
Finally, buy GOOD zooms (fast, single f/stop like f/2.8 usually a thousand dollars more than anything kit) or prime lenses in your future. Good glass cannot be stressed enough. Avoid most third party lens makers, as their difference to the real McCoy is often eye opening. The thing about buying prime lenses, you can buy old ones which have great performance at LOW dollars. Used departments at big camera stores, camera repair shops, and even pawn shops can be places of choice lens discovery.
When you have good glass, learn how to clean it. Terms like "lintless" and "microfiber" will become useful.
Of course, get a good tripod. The problem is, most, which is to say 90-95% of all tripods in manufacture AREN'T. When you buy a good one, you NEVER need to replace it. In my personal experience, try Gitzo, Sachtler, and (untested, but having the right attitude) Really Right Stuff. Also from personal experience: spend $500+ on a Manfrotto, and be very disappointed. Buy Manfrotto grip equipment, not their tripods. My fabulous 30+ year old Gitzo is still a great, trusted tripod, unlike my 6 year old Manfrotto which does not go anywhere near as high or low, or as stable. Emphasis on the STABLE. Manfrottos are not, unfortunately.
Enough for now.
As to graduating from a point and shoot to a DSLR, the trick is getting bang for the buck, and get a good lens as opposed to a kit lens, which invariably have weaknesses to go with any strengths. Simply having a variable f/stop speaks to cheap design and limitations.
Unfortunately, the current best bang for the buck intro DSLR camera apparently HAS TO be bundled with a cheap lens, the Nikon D3200. 24 megapixels and EXPEED 3 processing make this $700 camera a no brainer if you are not tied to Canon and just coming up from P&S.
As to a filter for protection of the lens, GIGO matters. (GIGO is: Garbage In, Garbage Out) and this points to any filter placed on a camera lens. Good filters are not too cheap. As for me, I have 30+ year old lenses which have NEVER had a Skylight or other "protection" filter on them, and having done photojournalism, adventure travel, and studio photography with these lenses since the days of film, I can definitely say protection filters, even good ones, are likely a waste of money. Lens endangering events are simply too rare, and yes, I have shot a hurricane with no filter, at the ocean, in the almost sideways stinging rain, in 60 mph winds. Waves were breaking 100 feet high off a jetty. I cleaned the lens a LOT. But nothing got in the unprotected lens, nor damaged it. The camera was baggied up to the front of the lens. The wind was strong enough that when I turned from the blasting wind, my glasses flew off and into the ocean. OUCH. It was hard driving back to our shelter, a few miles inland.
As to low cost software, there's Graphic Converter on the Mac, and Corel Paintshop Pro on the PC. I think both of these software choices can make contact sheets, which, if done as PDF files, become a simple shoot based cataloging system.
For long term archival storage, there is M-Disc. Buy M-Disc instead of regular DVD stuff, and be happy. And EDIT. Save only the very best. M-Disc is FAR SAFER than the "cloud" or any competing technology.
As to burst rate photography, it is almost NEVER used by professionals. The point of having a motor driven camera is to keep your eye glued to the viewfinder. Then, the skill to learn is WHEN to click the shot. Burst rate often gives zero good shots, but developing an eye guarantees it in fewer frames. I once edited a 216 frame burst rate sequence of a model walking toward camera. Actually WALKING. Zero shots were good. None. Knowing that a walking shot is never actually "walking" would have meant 216 shots with enormous similarity and quality. In reality, you shoot maybe six shots to get a "walking" shot right. Each is a single click of the shutter at the height of the action. No burst mode needed.
Extra batteries. Buy Pearstone NiMH rechargeable AA batteries and a charger from B&H Photo. Use the batteries until the camera shuts itself off. THEN charge/replace with another charged set. Why Pearstone? Kinda cheap and kinda works well.
External flash. Save to get a good one, with modifiers from Gary Fong and others. The better the flash (Nikon SB-800/900) the more stuff is available from places like Cowboy Studio (which, though the stuff is enticing, they are slower than molasses in Antarctic winter as to delivery.) All good things to those who wait.
Finally, buy GOOD zooms (fast, single f/stop like f/2.8 usually a thousand dollars more than anything kit) or prime lenses in your future. Good glass cannot be stressed enough. Avoid most third party lens makers, as their difference to the real McCoy is often eye opening. The thing about buying prime lenses, you can buy old ones which have great performance at LOW dollars. Used departments at big camera stores, camera repair shops, and even pawn shops can be places of choice lens discovery.
When you have good glass, learn how to clean it. Terms like "lintless" and "microfiber" will become useful.
Of course, get a good tripod. The problem is, most, which is to say 90-95% of all tripods in manufacture AREN'T. When you buy a good one, you NEVER need to replace it. In my personal experience, try Gitzo, Sachtler, and (untested, but having the right attitude) Really Right Stuff. Also from personal experience: spend $500+ on a Manfrotto, and be very disappointed. Buy Manfrotto grip equipment, not their tripods. My fabulous 30+ year old Gitzo is still a great, trusted tripod, unlike my 6 year old Manfrotto which does not go anywhere near as high or low, or as stable. Emphasis on the STABLE. Manfrottos are not, unfortunately.
Enough for now.
Aug 13, 2012 21:44:52 #
But what do we tell the person who wants to graduate
from a $200 P&S to a fairly good starter System who 'only'
has $1000 to spend. Buy a Manfrotto and NO camera? Do we
marginalize him/her and say welcome to the big leagues when
you get serious?
I suppose the guy I met is selling his cheap, and we say
bye, bye dummy?
from a $200 P&S to a fairly good starter System who 'only'
has $1000 to spend. Buy a Manfrotto and NO camera? Do we
marginalize him/her and say welcome to the big leagues when
you get serious?
I suppose the guy I met is selling his cheap, and we say
bye, bye dummy?
Aug 13, 2012 21:52:44 #
Scalawag wrote:
But what do we tell the person who wants to graduate
from a $200 P&S to a fairly good starter System who 'only'
has $1000 to spend. Buy a Manfrotto and NO camera? Do we
marginalize him/her and say welcome to the big leagues when
you get serious?
I suppose the guy I met is selling his cheap, and we say
bye, bye dummy?
from a $200 P&S to a fairly good starter System who 'only'
has $1000 to spend. Buy a Manfrotto and NO camera? Do we
marginalize him/her and say welcome to the big leagues when
you get serious?
I suppose the guy I met is selling his cheap, and we say
bye, bye dummy?
Used and/or refurbished gear from reputable dealers
Aug 13, 2012 22:45:48 #
Sixshooter,
Very good idea. And tripod should have been on my list, even a small one or bean bag, etc.
I suspect there are quite a few newcomers who are serious about
iImproving their setup and skills but who don't have the years of experience
many here on UHH have or who simply have not done their homework.
Getting them started on the fast track may help all of us in the long run...bigger market, more competition from manufacturers, and better resale for our stuff. (Big Smiley Face here!)
Cheers, Vern
Very good idea. And tripod should have been on my list, even a small one or bean bag, etc.
I suspect there are quite a few newcomers who are serious about
iImproving their setup and skills but who don't have the years of experience
many here on UHH have or who simply have not done their homework.
Getting them started on the fast track may help all of us in the long run...bigger market, more competition from manufacturers, and better resale for our stuff. (Big Smiley Face here!)
Cheers, Vern
Aug 13, 2012 23:28:44 #
Upgrading to a DSLR is going to hurt the pocket book. $1000 Will just get you barely started. Do plenty of research before jumping in. That way you will be in control. The only thing that is hard to control is bigger better lust.
Aug 13, 2012 23:47:14 #
here is what a little research came up with. using nikon as an example because i have no experience with canon. and please, you guys this is for beginners so don't get bent. an example: nikon d70, still a nice camera that takes great pics, 200.00 on craigslist as is a 50 1.8 for 125.00 an 18-55 for 90.00, a 50-300 for 100.00, a 60 macro for 175.00, a decent velbon tripod for 125.00 some faster glass but also too pricy for starters. this setup would easily allow someone to learn how to take pictures. yes there are some drawbacks with the slower lenses, especially shooting sports but i think it is a good start. learn how to shoot, then see if you like it enough to get better stuff for what you want to shoot most. as you can see there is room for accessories with a 1000.00 budget. almost forgot about a flash, sb 800 for 125,00
Aug 14, 2012 00:54:22 #
myts10
Loc: SE Ohio
My 2 cents starts at the other end. Meaning, get the best out of what you have. I have a P&S Panasonic Lumix TS10, 14MP, no controls for Aperture or Shutter speed. I do have various scenes and can change the ISO and WB in some auto modes. I figure if I can't take, and PP, a scene or portrait worthy of display, than upgrading to a better camera is not going to help.
OK, I am going to get a better tripod. I might look silly with my little P&S sitting on top. But it will be more stable for better shots and I will have one if and when I get a DSLR.
As for software, yes Picasa is a very good place to start. It's free, shows what the various adjustments will do and you can even patch bad spots in a shot. Not quite as good as PSE 9 but it does work. If I get a DSLR I will already have good software and know how to use it. BTW Picasa is still better and faster at getting shots from the camera to the PC than that blankity blank Elements Organizer.
Yes, I have a cheap printer, but use very good paper along with the paper manufactures ICC profiles.
Computer is cheap too. My monitor is good, could be better, but it is calibrated with a Spyder3. A calibrated monitor is crucial to PP work. When it quits I will get a better computer and monitor.
Lighting? Well I'm in left field on that one. I never use flash and all my light bulbs are LEDs. It's and ongoing experiment with some success.
So I am milking what I have for the best I can get, with my little Intelligent Auto P&S. I am collecting good support equipment will serve me well If I get a DSLR.
OK, I am going to get a better tripod. I might look silly with my little P&S sitting on top. But it will be more stable for better shots and I will have one if and when I get a DSLR.
As for software, yes Picasa is a very good place to start. It's free, shows what the various adjustments will do and you can even patch bad spots in a shot. Not quite as good as PSE 9 but it does work. If I get a DSLR I will already have good software and know how to use it. BTW Picasa is still better and faster at getting shots from the camera to the PC than that blankity blank Elements Organizer.
Yes, I have a cheap printer, but use very good paper along with the paper manufactures ICC profiles.
Computer is cheap too. My monitor is good, could be better, but it is calibrated with a Spyder3. A calibrated monitor is crucial to PP work. When it quits I will get a better computer and monitor.
Lighting? Well I'm in left field on that one. I never use flash and all my light bulbs are LEDs. It's and ongoing experiment with some success.
So I am milking what I have for the best I can get, with my little Intelligent Auto P&S. I am collecting good support equipment will serve me well If I get a DSLR.
Aug 14, 2012 07:27:55 #
magicunicorn
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Hi everyone. Lily66lady I have the same problem, last for a few weeks then moves on to another bit of equipment I want but not ness airily need then and there
Aug 14, 2012 07:38:15 #
tripods=waste of money. good monopod=life saver!
extra cards, batteries, field guides for cameras = needed items.
extra cards, batteries, field guides for cameras = needed items.
Aug 14, 2012 09:12:20 #
myts10 wrote:
My 2 cents starts at the other end. Meaning, get t... (show quote)
Going off on a tangent from this view, what about moving up from a P&S to a decent bridge camera and then buying some of the peripherals (monopod or tripod, possibly flash if you're into portraits, software, etc).
If the bridge camera works out, then make the jump to DSLR & the extra lenses since the glass is where the majority of the cash outlay will eventually go.
Aug 14, 2012 10:29:43 #
Post processing software: GIMP is free. I started with that and I found it very useful.
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.