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Exposure Simplified
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Jan 22, 2019 00:46:06   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
I've been following several posts that either lament the difficulty of teaching or learning exposure or which have tried to explain how things work. Some of these efforts are really good and, in fact, really elegant. I mean no malice toward them here.

But as I have written in another post, I have had an experience recently which significantly impacted my thinking around this topic. It really encouraged me around the ability of people, even kids, to learn how exposure works, and it made me carefully examine how exposure is usually taught. I expressed my most current thinking about this in that other post, but because it is buried deeply in the discussion there, thought I'd start a new one here. So here goes...

In my experience, learning exposure is a mess for primarily two reasons:

1. We make it too complicated when teaching it. (Makes me wonder if we really understand it.)
2. We have no patience. Most of us on this forum have been at this for 30 years or more. But we expect newcomers to get it on the first try.

f/ stop (note the forward slash) is a term with a very specific meaning. For instance, f/5.6 is actually a number calculated by dividing the focal length of that lens by an exposure ratio of 5.6. The result is a number which is the diameter of the controlling aperture of the lens..for instance for a 100mm lens, f/11 represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/11=9.09mm.

f/22 for that same lens represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/22=4.045mm.

Now it turns out that the area of that 9.09mm aperture is exactly 4 times the area of the area of the 4.045mm aperture. You can do the arithmetic. Area of a circle is pi X r X r.

So the larger opening lets in 4 times the amount of light. 2 stops = 4 times the light, 1 stop = 2 times the light. There is no mystery. The arithmetic is not even complicated. We need to stop making it so.

Similarly, a shutter open time that is twice as long also lets in twice as much light. Half as long lets in half as much light. Period. Nothing more than that.

Both of these methods control how much light falls on a piece of film or on a sensor. They can be used equally to control exposure. And each of them also can potentially affect our images in other ways. We'll talk about that separately in a different lesson.

We need to stop making it so complicated.

It's just not.

Reply
Jan 22, 2019 01:03:38   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
While I agree with you I have never tried to teach it. And since I have a Masters Degree in Engineering and aced every math course along the way I know I am in no position to judge how most people would see it. But since we see so many people who try to teach it looking for different and simpler ways to do so leads me to believe that many people find it daunting.

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Jan 22, 2019 01:12:13   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
You are correct. But Lesson 2 will follow. Aperture and shutter speed can be related together with a simple arithmetic expression...two simple multiplications (or an exponentiation and a single multiplication).

Then Lesson 3 will add sensitivity to light...what do we do about that?

All of a sudden, we are done.

We'll see how it goes.

Reply
 
 
Jan 23, 2019 06:41:51   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
This started out well, but the statement "f/ stop (note the forward slash) is a term with a very specific meaning. For instance, f/5.6 is actually a number calculated by dividing the focal length of that lens by an exposure ratio of 5.6".

The f-number, f/, of an optical system (such as a camera lens) is the ratio of the system's focal length to the diameter of the entrance pupil. - wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

I didn't bother reading further than this statement.
--Bob

larryepage wrote:
I've been following several posts that either lament the difficulty of teaching or learning exposure or which have tried to explain how things work. Some of these efforts are really good and, in fact, really elegant. I mean no malice toward them here.

But as I have written in another post, I have had an experience recently which significantly impacted my thinking around this topic. It really encouraged me around the ability of people, even kids, to learn how exposure works, and it made me carefully examine how exposure is usually taught. I expressed my most current thinking about this in that other post, but because it is buried deeply in the discussion there, thought I'd start a new one here. So here goes...

In my experience, learning exposure is a mess for primarily two reasons:

1. We make it too complicated when teaching it. (Makes me wonder if we really understand it.)
2. We have no patience. Most of us on this forum have been at this for 30 years or more. But we expect newcomers to get it on the first try.

f/ stop (note the forward slash) is a term with a very specific meaning. For instance, f/5.6 is actually a number calculated by dividing the focal length of that lens by an exposure ratio of 5.6. The result is a number which is the diameter of the controlling aperture of the lens..for instance for a 100mm lens, f/11 represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/11=9.09mm.

f/22 for that same lens represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/22=4.045mm.

Now it turns out that the area of that 9.09mm aperture is exactly 4 times the area of the area of the 4.045mm aperture. You can do the arithmetic. Area of a circle is pi X r X r.

So the larger opening lets in 4 times the amount of light. 2 stops = 4 times the light, 1 stop = 2 times the light. There is no mystery. The arithmetic is not even complicated. We need to stop making it so.

Similarly, a shutter open time that is twice as long also lets in twice as much light. Half as long lets in half as much light. Period. Nothing more than that.

Both of these methods control how much light falls on a piece of film or on a sensor. They can be used equally to control exposure. And each of them also can potentially affect our images in other ways. We'll talk about that separately in a different lesson.

We need to stop making it so complicated.

It's just not.
I've been following several posts that either lame... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 23, 2019 07:18:10   #
BebuLamar
 
larryepage wrote:
I've been following several posts that either lament the difficulty of teaching or learning exposure or which have tried to explain how things work. Some of these efforts are really good and, in fact, really elegant. I mean no malice toward them here.

But as I have written in another post, I have had an experience recently which significantly impacted my thinking around this topic. It really encouraged me around the ability of people, even kids, to learn how exposure works, and it made me carefully examine how exposure is usually taught. I expressed my most current thinking about this in that other post, but because it is buried deeply in the discussion there, thought I'd start a new one here. So here goes...

In my experience, learning exposure is a mess for primarily two reasons:

1. We make it too complicated when teaching it. (Makes me wonder if we really understand it.)
2. We have no patience. Most of us on this forum have been at this for 30 years or more. But we expect newcomers to get it on the first try.

f/ stop (note the forward slash) is a term with a very specific meaning. For instance, f/5.6 is actually a number calculated by dividing the focal length of that lens by an exposure ratio of 5.6. The result is a number which is the diameter of the controlling aperture of the lens..for instance for a 100mm lens, f/11 represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/11=9.09mm.

f/22 for that same lens represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/22=4.045mm.

Now it turns out that the area of that 9.09mm aperture is exactly 4 times the area of the area of the 4.045mm aperture. You can do the arithmetic. Area of a circle is pi X r X r.

So the larger opening lets in 4 times the amount of light. 2 stops = 4 times the light, 1 stop = 2 times the light. There is no mystery. The arithmetic is not even complicated. We need to stop making it so.

Similarly, a shutter open time that is twice as long also lets in twice as much light. Half as long lets in half as much light. Period. Nothing more than that.

Both of these methods control how much light falls on a piece of film or on a sensor. They can be used equally to control exposure. And each of them also can potentially affect our images in other ways. We'll talk about that separately in a different lesson.

We need to stop making it so complicated.

It's just not.
I've been following several posts that either lame... (show quote)


I guess I don't understand the difficultly because all the stuff you said I got it after about 1/2 hour of lecture from my father when was 10 before he let me use his camera.

Reply
Jan 23, 2019 07:53:49   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I guess I don't understand the difficultly because all the stuff you said I got it after about 1/2 hour of lecture from my father when was 10 before he let me use his camera.



Reply
Jan 23, 2019 08:16:59   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
When I saw your title, I thought of two more topics you could attempt to simplify: Politics Simplified; Religion Simplified. Good luck!

Reply
 
 
Jan 23, 2019 09:26:52   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Larry,

Bringing in the actual diameter of an aperture is one of those things that while they may be accurate also tend to complicate things. I have never heard a photographer say "Hey, what diameter aperture are you using?".

Understanding that each full stop doubles or halves the amount of light is what a photographer needs to understand.

An easy way to keep track of full stops is to start with F/1 and f/1.4 then double the preceding one.

F/1, F/1.4, (1x2) F/2, (1.4X2) F/2.8, (2X2) F/4, (2.8x2) F/5.6, (4x2) F/8 etc.

F/11 is actually rounded down from 11.2, probably to simplify things going forward.

To me, simplifying a topic means teaching what helps get the job done. In many cases the why is good to know and can be very helpful. But that usually has nothing to do with simple. The subject of exposure, or the exposure triangle, is bringing people just one step above full auto. Baby steps are better.

--

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Jan 23, 2019 09:45:05   #
fourlocks Loc: Londonderry, NH
 
I agree with Larry; there's no reason to make it complicated for someone first using a DSLR. When I got my 35mm Nikkormat in 1974, all I needed to know to get started, was to get the little exposure needle in the viewfinder centered between the "+" and the "-" to get a good exposure. Watching that needle move as I rotated the aperture ring and shutter speed ring showed me the relationship between speed and aperture (don't forget ISO was basically "fixed" based on film speed) without my knowing any of the mathematics or algorithms. I suppose if you're really hardcore, it's good to know all the mathematical relationships but hey; I was a biology major because I hated math and all I want to do, is take a photo that meets my expectations!

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Jan 23, 2019 09:49:43   #
jhigbie Loc: Ventura, CA
 
Generally I know how the variables on the camera affect the result of a shot, but using the math to determine how to take the shot has been the show stopper for me while the reality in the shot moves on. Being more visual I have lately been using Live View on my Nikon and the wysiwyg on the Fugi to adjust the variables to match the reality that I am seeing and happier for it. Dumbing down or opening new doors?

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Jan 23, 2019 09:57:00   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Exposure is not complicated, we make it complicated. Apertures and shutter speeds are part of the basics of photography. Not understanding what they do means that it will not be easy to understand exposure.
Meters read gray as the correct exposure so bright or dark subjects will need exposure compensation. There is also the exposure set by the photographer that fits his artistic intents. The meter here is only a guide. There is also the "sunny 16" rule.
Many books have been written on exposure and in more than one occasion I have mentioned my favorite one as the best I have ever read about exposure.
Photography is simple, we make it complicated.

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Jan 23, 2019 10:56:50   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
larryepage wrote:
I've been following several posts that either lament the difficulty of teaching or learning exposure or which have tried to explain how things work. Some of these efforts are really good and, in fact, really elegant. I mean no malice toward them here.

But as I have written in another post, I have had an experience recently which significantly impacted my thinking around this topic. It really encouraged me around the ability of people, even kids, to learn how exposure works, and it made me carefully examine how exposure is usually taught. I expressed my most current thinking about this in that other post, but because it is buried deeply in the discussion there, thought I'd start a new one here. So here goes...

In my experience, learning exposure is a mess for primarily two reasons:

1. We make it too complicated when teaching it. (Makes me wonder if we really understand it.)
2. We have no patience. Most of us on this forum have been at this for 30 years or more. But we expect newcomers to get it on the first try.

f/ stop (note the forward slash) is a term with a very specific meaning. For instance, f/5.6 is actually a number calculated by dividing the focal length of that lens by an exposure ratio of 5.6. The result is a number which is the diameter of the controlling aperture of the lens..for instance for a 100mm lens, f/11 represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/11=9.09mm.

f/22 for that same lens represents an aperture diameter of 100mm/22=4.045mm.

Now it turns out that the area of that 9.09mm aperture is exactly 4 times the area of the area of the 4.045mm aperture. You can do the arithmetic. Area of a circle is pi X r X r.

So the larger opening lets in 4 times the amount of light. 2 stops = 4 times the light, 1 stop = 2 times the light. There is no mystery. The arithmetic is not even complicated. We need to stop making it so.

Similarly, a shutter open time that is twice as long also lets in twice as much light. Half as long lets in half as much light. Period. Nothing more than that.

Both of these methods control how much light falls on a piece of film or on a sensor. They can be used equally to control exposure. And each of them also can potentially affect our images in other ways. We'll talk about that separately in a different lesson.

We need to stop making it so complicated.
Up
It's just not.
I've been following several posts that either lame... (show quote)


For the techies, this might be good. BUT this will be confusing, very, to MOST beginners.... Just the opposite of what you want to do...

Imho

Reply
Jan 23, 2019 11:00:15   #
Cyberkinesis70 Loc: Northern Colorado
 
I think too many times we go into analysis paralysis. The exposure triangle should be sufficient. You only need to know how the elements, ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, act in relation to each other. Not how a lens works or the shutter. If that were the case, point and shoot cameras wouldn't work for anyone. You certainly do not need a bunch of equations to take good pictures. Leave the chalk board behind and experience what your camera will do.

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Jan 23, 2019 11:16:02   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Thanks for all the comments. I still maintain that managing exposure is not nearly as complicated as it's caused to be.

Bob--thanks for your comments. And you are of course correct about the "entrance pupil," but that is a term that I never use when discussing exposure. It has deep and powerful meaning for optically nerdy physicists and optical engineers, but causes deep and powerful confusion and misunderstanding for just about everyone else. It is buried within the optical array and conveys no intrinsic meaning or significance to the layman or photographer, who instead always seem to attach the term to the diameter of the objective lens. But they can understand a term like "controlling aperture" associated with the iris.

We need new people in our hobby and profession, just like we need more new people in amateur radio and other endeavors, if we want those pursuits not to die. My resolution is to continue doing that in the way that I have found and proven to work effectively and painlessly, and not bother the community here about it any further.

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Jan 23, 2019 11:25:25   #
BebuLamar
 
Cyberkinesis70 wrote:
I think too many times we go into analysis paralysis. The exposure triangle should be sufficient. You only need to know how the elements, ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, act in relation to each other. Not how a lens works or the shutter. If that were the case, point and shoot cameras wouldn't work for anyone. You certainly do not need a bunch of equations to take good pictures. Leave the chalk board behind and experience what your camera will do.


I have been doing photography for at least 25 years before I heard of the "Exposure Triangle". It's useless for me!

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