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DSLR v Mirrorless
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Jan 16, 2019 12:24:17   #
gwilliams6
 
dsmeltz wrote:
It is even worse than this. DSLRs have a separate focus sensor not shown here.


yes correct

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Jan 16, 2019 12:32:01   #
gwilliams6
 
When I went to Sony Mirrorless back in January 2017, (after 40 years a Nikon and Canon SLR and DSLR pro user), I didn't want or need to keep two systems. I first sold off my DSLR bodies, bought Sony bodies and used some of my older DSLR lenses with adapters for awhile. Then gradually sold off my DSLR lenses and accessories and moved completely to Sony and Sigma glass. It was a several months process. What helped me in my transition is I have a great camera store, Allen's Camera in Levittown, Pa. (outside Philadelphia) where i had bought a lot of my DSLR gear. Allen's is known for having great used gear of all brands in addition to all the new stuff. Allen's took my used gear (which I kept in excellent condition) in trade for store credit which I used to help buy my new mirrorless gear. Yes it still cost me some to switch, but not as much a hit as you might think. In the end it was worth it and I enjoy the advantages of my mirrorless system everyday.

THANKS TO KAT, BURKPHOTO AND OTHERS FOR EXCELLENT POSTS IN THIS THREAD.
Cheers

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Jan 16, 2019 12:37:04   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
burkphoto wrote:
Great illustration. Similar diagrams have been around, but this one's cleaner than most. It really shows how complex the dSLR/SLR design is, compared to mirrorless (or, going back decades, rangefinder) designs.

The story of dSLR and mirrorless is more complicated than the word, 'versus'. I do think that mirrorless schemes will eventually replace reflex viewing schemes. However, at the current time, both systems have distinct advantages and disadvantages. As microprocessors and sensors and OLED displays and EVFs become more capable (quicker), there will be faster adoption of mirrorless gear.

Canon and Nikon getting into the mirrorless full frame fray will (longer term) be great for the industry. But don't rule out Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony. Each has a unique feature set to offer.

It's basic human tendency to want to pick a "best" of everything. However, "best" is nearly always relative to the task at hand. It behooves each of us to do our homework to be reasonably sure we get the right system(s) for our needs. I gave up Canons and Nikons a few years ago for a specific feature set I needed — a balance of stills and video capabilities in a small package. It was the right choice for me. But I agonized over it for two years before I made the jump. It was worth the time to research my options!
Great illustration. Similar diagrams have been aro... (show quote)


A third diagram might show the Fuji hybrid OVF / EVF digital rangefinder mirrorless design. I really like having the option of too viewing systems plus both at once and a live-view-like mode. I don't need speed as far as setting up modes so the choices are fine for me. Though thus far my DSLRs still seem best for macro.

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Jan 16, 2019 12:40:16   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
bobmcculloch wrote:
BTW I remember Canon having a 'Pelicle' way back, in the 60's or 70's, died off before I was in retailing.


They also had the pelicle mirror in the High Speed F-1 and the EOS 1 RS I believe it was.
I imagine that the pelicle was an experiment in anticipation of the HS F-1. Canon seems to do this to try out different concepts with a view to a future product.

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Jan 16, 2019 12:41:53   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Tom Daniels wrote:
The only thing I read when I bought the Nikon D800 was the sensor was from Sony.



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Jan 16, 2019 12:45:57   #
gwilliams6
 
lamiaceae wrote:
A third diagram might show the Fuji hybrid OVF / EVF digital rangefinder mirrorless design. I really like having the option of too viewing systems plus both at once and a live-view-like mode. I don't need speed as far as setting up modes so the choices are fine for me. Though thus far my DSLRs still seem best for macro.


Modern mirrorless cameras work great with macro photography, never worse than a DSLR. Cheers

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Jan 16, 2019 12:51:14   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
anotherview wrote:
At present, so far as I can tell, the mirrorless camera design, while simpler, of course, still does not outdo the DSLR in image quality. A showing of superior IQ via mirrorless cameras will nudge me toward this advance in technology. Meanwhile, I find all I need with my Canon DSLRs.


While IQ may be the MOST important factor in judging a camera, it is not the ONLY factor. I find the preview of the actual foto, which is visible in the EVF, with its WB, its exposure, its histogram, its highlight values, and which makes the process so much more precise and predictable, to be a very BIG factor in the ease of use of the machine. It makes the PROCESS more enjoyable and satisfying. By contrast, I found my Nikon 5500 to be frustrating, and annoying to use because of the difficulty in changing settings. Before I got my MILC, I thought the Nikon was fine, but after using the Fuji X-T2, I gave the Nikon away. I find I use the camera more now because it is so easy and natural to use. A BIG factor - and perhaps just as important as IQ. The photos you don't take have no IQ at all, do they?

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Jan 16, 2019 12:52:06   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
CatMarley wrote:
They don't buy an MILC INTENDING to get rid of their DSLR. In the beginning they say, "Now I can take advantage of the best of both!" After a couple of months they find a lot of dust gathering on the DSLR, and after another half a year, they either sell it or give it to a relative.


My time line was right on target.

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Jan 16, 2019 13:08:05   #
Ched49 Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
It's well known the mirrorless system is less complicated and better designed for picture taking, except for one area...comfort and looks. The DSLR with it's rounded off corners and bigger size make it more comfortable to take pictures and pleasing to look at than the mirrorless cameras with their squared off corners.

Nobody is going to abandon the DSLR anytime soon and go strictly mirrorless. I like the feel of a substantial size camera in my hand.

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Jan 16, 2019 13:15:12   #
carl hervol Loc: jacksonville florida
 
Because they can find sucker to buy them .I'm sticking with dslr.s.

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Jan 16, 2019 13:41:22   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Strodav wrote:
My local camera shop here in Houston held a major vendor day event a few months back [the day I bought a D850]. Nikon was there and as an EE, I asked several questions about Nikon sensors from several different angles, especially sensors for the D7200, D500, D750 and D850. I was assured Nikon has its own sensor R&D group, they design all their own sensors, but contract out to various CMOS foundries for parts built to Nikon specs and quality standards. Was I lied to?


Nikon at least used to make it's own optical glass and lenses. As far a I know Nikon uses as most companies do sensors from various vendors. The Nikon D810 uses an older version of the same Sony made sensor as the Pentax K-1. Canon makes it's own sensors though. Designing a camera is one thing, building sensors is another. Dell designs and builds computers, but uses intel or ADM microprocessors. Apple used to use Motorola CPUs, then switched to intel. I hear the are proposing to make their own microprocessors in the future.

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Jan 16, 2019 13:51:38   #
carl hervol Loc: jacksonville florida
 
so what just look at your cat it got part made from the world are you going to stop buying a car ?

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Jan 16, 2019 14:05:02   #
Black Elk Peak
 
alfeng wrote:
BUT, you will probably lose almost 1 f/stop of light which can reach the film plane ...

... THAT may-or-may-not be an issue for some people.

BTW. The Canon Pellix was NOT significantly quieter (if at all!?!) than a Canon FT despite not having the mirror slap ...

... yes, I made the mistake of buying one, so it's a first-hand observation!




I do not find this to be the case. Excellent pictures; I have not seen any degradation in light loss. I had a Canon DSLR. The Sony is significantly quieter. Pictures were excellent on both. I did not have to make any light compensation changes when switching between the two. For me, no difference in mirror technology between the Canon/Sony.

Also, the Canon Pellix is 1965 technology. Kinda like comparing a 1965 Datsun pickup truck to my 2015 Ford F150 XLT pickup.

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Jan 16, 2019 14:14:16   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
lamiaceae wrote:
Nikon at least used to make it's own optical glass and lenses. As far a I know Nikon uses as most companies do sensors from various vendors. The Nikon D810 uses an older version of the same Sony made sensor as the Pentax K-1. Canon makes it's own sensors though. Designing a camera is one thing, building sensors is another. Dell designs and builds computers, but uses intel or ADM microprocessors. Apple used to use Motorola CPUs, then switched to intel. I hear the are proposing to make their own microprocessors in the future.
Nikon at least used to make it's own optical glass... (show quote)


Nikon designs and owns the rights to high end sensors, but contracts out to 3rd parties, especially Sony and Toshiba, to build them.
https://petapixel.com/2018/07/17/yes-nikon-designs-its-own-sensors/
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1508441/

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Jan 16, 2019 15:30:08   #
Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA
 
Jakebrake wrote:
Nice graphic Cat and easily shows the difference in the two systems. As for me jumping in the mirrorless bandwagon, that's not going to happen. At 72 years old and upgrading last year to the Canon 5D Mk IV and 80D which take stellar images if I do my part, I see no need to change systems.

Right and wrong. You are correct in your assessment that your DSLR is perfectly adequate, but you are incorrect in thinking of mirrorless as a bandwagon. Mirrorless is the future of photography, and one day soon clunky DSLRs will no longer be produced.

Had I a DSLR, I would not jump ship for the sake of going to mirrorless, but if I were new to digital, I would certainly choose mirrorless over a DSLR if there were a mirrorless option that suited my needs. Aside from Fuji, any M4/3 system, and Sony, options are limited. It's exciting to see Canon and Nikon finally making a serious effort -- albeit one to three generations behind Sony's full-frame offerings. Even CaNikon knows where the market is heading.

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