RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia

Your creation???
I seee this image on the captain obviouss site.

RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia

A shutter.
Is that your image?

Bipod

How come no answer, UserID?

And yes, every high-end mirrorless camera has a focal plane shutter--just alike an SLR from the 1970s does--
with all the same limitations and mechanical complexity.

The "cameras of the future" look a lot like the cameras of the past, only less diverse and with dinky sensors.
Only four types of cameras are currently being manufactured by the big Japanese camera companies:

1. Mirrorless with screen on the back.
2. Mirrorless with screen inside (EVF).
3. SLT (Sony only)
4. DSLR

And if the industy gets its way, that list will be reduced to just the first two types--the cheapest
to manufacture. (And if digital camera sales continue to fall, those will be replaced by smart phones.)

But hey, one size fits all! And anything you can do with an 8 x 10" view camera
you can do evey better with a Micro Four Thirds! Just ask tdekany.

Grandpa Ron

Except for the pros and serious camera nerds this is all a moot point. The vast majority of camera users are quite content with anything that will take a a picture; hence the use of smart phones replacing cameras.

Basically most folks replace a camera when their old camera is not up to the task or they just want to try something new. Given the speed of technology that something new is old hat in a couple of years.

The periodic resurgence of film is not due to films vastly superior image capture, it is a classic example of adding the fun factor, the tactile feel of manual adjustments and moving parts.

For most, photography is a hobby, for some a very serious hobby and a hobby needs no justification.

Mirror less will find a market, if over time, it is superior or cheaper, it will capture the consumer market.

The professional photographer is an entirely different animal.

gwilliams6

From well known Nikon DSLR shoot Mark Smith:

Mirrorless Sony A9 - Sony 100-400mm lens - First Few Weeks from a Nikon Shooter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOWyndDRlg&fbclid=IwAR1yTt21Xm1EUj0Zn10wPBEqposokJ7IJ61iqicVQkx7WUFy_6oIsFabl3Y

User ID

Well, I may be "different", but I'm not an "animal" !

`

User ID

Shutter optional and nearly obsolete.

So sue me.

Photocraig

Architect,
I think Canon going into the Adapter Business for, first the M series, and now the R series is a major departure form their "Product Continuity" policies of the past. With The intro of the EOS system in the 80's which was a radical departure from their past product designs, they orphaned the entire line of excellent SLR and Rangefinder lenses. This was a major leap with great risk. A number of Canon pros and enthusiasts, at the time, switched to Nikon. And Nikon, being the benefactor of such a bold move by competitor Canon, kept compatibility with (most of) their legacy glass to this day.

My point, yes, there is one, is I think the rumors that Canon will soon end new development of EF lenses and devote its R&D lens efforts to the new RF line are true. The almost universal rave reviews of the RF lenses from the pros and YouTubers at the EOS R event, despite reservations about the Pro Worthiness of the bodies, like single card slot and the funky multi purpose slender switch, tells me that Canon wants to move their entire line to mirrorless. The reasons are as the diagram shows the economies of manufacturing. The economies of scale apply 10 times more to Semiconductor parts than they ever did to mechanical parts. So the more sensors you make the lower (because of higher yields) the unit cost will be. The same will prove true for OLED's.

Preserving the upgrade path with compatibility with existing EF and EF-S glass is the telling key. Now, the "R" bodies are priced roughly equivalent to the 5D line and the 6D line with only the need to buy adaptors to use your Canon and Third Party lens inventory makes the move feasible for both a Canon FF and APS-C user. What makes questionable sense for Canon is the RF lenses are beyond "L" costly! This is great for margins, but without mitigation, there will be smaller volumes. With development on only a single line of lenses and with perhaps enthusiast versions of the lenses and bodies to come (I hope), we will see a volume-priced friendly line of EOS R products from Canon as the progress after 2020.

With the great success of the Rebel line, I don't believe that Canon will abandon the very popular and high quality and volume entry level marketplace. Expect a Rebel R sometime soon. This is where the economies of scale will translate up and down their entire camera product space.

For me and my ingrained into an old brain EOS mentality, the R system with adaptors is my upgrade path to Full Frame. Since the EF-R 24-70 costs more than my entire outfit, I doubt if I'll ever buy one, even used. (Maybe for my 80th birthday--hint). But I can use all my lenses and keep my APS-C 77D for light weight work.
C

gwilliams6

Mirrorless is ALREADY capturing the professional market. I and countless other pros have switched to mirrorless from DSLRs and are getting better performance and features that NO DSLR can physically ever have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtOIz_LT9SM&t=34s https://petapixel.com/2018/01/23/photographer-david-burnett-switches-sony-40-years-shooting-canon/
https://petapixel.com/2017/05/09/shooting-kentucky-derby-20fps-sony-a9/ https://alphauniverse.com/stories/sony-a9-s-features-unmatched-at-u-s--open/ https://alphauniverse.com/stories/sports-pro-s-gear-for-the-winter-games-in-south-korea/ https://alphasports.pro/
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/why-i-switched-canon-sony-colby-brown
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/why-i-switched-nikon-sony-matt-kloskowski
https://alphauniverse.com/artisans/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMP4vJr6cGk

http://sonyaddict.com/2018/03/31/luke-massey-swapped-the-canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-for-the-sony-a9/ Swapping a Canon EOS 1D X Mark II for a Sony A9 - We speak to wildlife photographer Luke Massey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1IyIE2gAL4&t=169s
Many Pros shooting Sony mirrorless at 2018 US Open Tennis Championships. Here is just one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Tlej_oatY&feature=share
Shooting the Sony A9 & the FE400mm f/2.8GM at the US Open - 2018

From well known Nikon DSLR shoot Mark Smith:
Mirrorless Sony A9 - Sony 100-400mm lens - First Few Weeks from a Nikon Shooter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOWyndDRlg&fbclid=IwAR1yTt21Xm1EUj0Zn10wPBEqposokJ7IJ61iqicVQkx7WUFy_6oIsFabl3Y

User ID

Grandpa Ron

"Different Animal", "Horse of a different color", "A zebra of different stripes" are all colloquialisms I grew up with. No offence intended.

My point was, hobby photographers, musicians, artists, writers etc. rarely understand the world of the professional; who next house payment depend on their skills at their craft. To them DSLR vs Mirror less and other esoteric discussions can have significantly more meaning.

Bipod

No shutter = lower resolution, slower frame rate, more heat

"Global shutter" sensors are improving, but are not yet ready for high-end cameras.

It would be really nice if they were. It would be really nice if the Titanic had
been unsinkable. If wishes were horses...

Not even Sony uses them in its Alpha mirrorless. Sony is selling cutting edge
high-res global shutter sensor for industrial uses, but not for photography.
(But if you know something Sony doesn't, please share it..)

To avoid the gaps between photocell rows, a global shutter sensor needs to stack
circuits. 3D IC fabrication is at the "bleeding edge" of technology and is extremely
expensive. The larger the image sensor, the more difficult it is to fabricate.

And we're still waiting for an unsinkable large ocean-going ship...

gwilliams6

Canon sees a grim future for the camera business: the digital camera market is likely to shrink by half in the next two years

Read more:https://photorumors.com/2019/01/27/canon-sees-a-grim-future-for-the-camera-business-the-digital-camera-market-is-likely-to-shrink-by-half-in-the-next-two-years/#ixzz5drqRPdbA



https://photorumors.com/2019/01/27/canon-sees-a-grim-future-for-the-camera-business-the-digital-camera-market-is-likely-to-shrink-by-half-in-the-next-two-years/?fbclid=IwAR1dhQAwNYnrS6y7KHQCdcywYp4w6SJr_vCPi37m-_-LtHkYmAgCvo6GIC8



IMHO, although the overall market is shrinking. I disagree it will shrink by half in the next two years. The Olympics coming up will fuel interest in all the great gear being introduced in 2019 and 2020. Maybe Canon wants an "out" to slowing down their introduction of new gear, and/or their shrinking share of the market against tougher competition.



Canon profit figures (the ones allowed to be released) show they are making less and less percentage of their total profit from consumer cameras and more percentage of their total profit from their corporate and medical products.

Cheers

gwilliams6

User ID I see you yawning in your post here. If the discussion is keeping you away from your nap, I understand. Go get your rest. The rest of us alert,awake and interested folks will continue without you. lol Cheers

User ID

Right. Global is not yet prime time. Thaz why I said
that shutters are NEARLY obsolete. Further, they are
already obsolete for some purposes such as low light
shooting at slower speeds ... which is often linked to
a need for a silent camera as well.

At those slower speeds, there's no distortion. As to
loss of resolution ? None. If by "lower resolution" you
mean motion distortion, I spoze you can kinda make
a case, but that only occurs at higher shutter speeds.
Distortion isn't really loss of resolution ... but it IS an
undesirable effect.

Maybe you mean the "resolution loss" when my 20MP
Lumix drops to 18MP to shoot 60fps stills bursts? Not
the fault of shutterless shooting. If you slow it down
just slightly, the full 20MP returns, and still no shutter
involved. I don't use the mechanical shutter, but IIRC
you hafta slow the burst rate to about 10fps to engage
the shutter.

Heat ? I don't know. Not had problems but I don't do
torture testing of my gear, and I live in the northeast.

But ... FRAMING RATE ? ! Mechanical shutter mode is
drastically SLOWER in my experience, also according
to the user manuals/specs for all my cameras that do
both mechanical and electronic shutter mode. You got
that aspect absolutely backwards.

.