Full frame vs Crop Sensor APS c Aps H
Jan 2, 2019 13:44:01 #
This may have been debated ad noseum here but I just watched a "so called" professional wildlife photographer extolling the virtues of his Canon 7D over his 5D explaining to all of us peons that his 7d, because it is a crop sensor, gives him more REACH.
Well I am a professional photographer and have been since the first slr's came out. I have yet to see a 200 mm or a 400 mm lens magically transform into a 320mm or a 640 mm lens.
You DO NOT get more reach. You merely get a smaller FOV (field of view) from a crop sensor using full frame, (based on old 35 mm film) lens. The frame or picture is effectively cropped. You do not get more magnification. It only appears closer because the picture has been cropped down in the sensor.
Well I am a professional photographer and have been since the first slr's came out. I have yet to see a 200 mm or a 400 mm lens magically transform into a 320mm or a 640 mm lens.
You DO NOT get more reach. You merely get a smaller FOV (field of view) from a crop sensor using full frame, (based on old 35 mm film) lens. The frame or picture is effectively cropped. You do not get more magnification. It only appears closer because the picture has been cropped down in the sensor.
Jan 2, 2019 13:48:01 #
Jan 2, 2019 13:48:48 #
Jan 2, 2019 13:55:56 #
gordnanaimo wrote:
guess so and that would be Mr. Einstein.
Thanks, Mr. Einstein. Thought I missed something new or important. Glad to know this post is old news, and everyone knows it but you???
Jan 2, 2019 14:01:25 #
It all comes down to just how do you achieve all that extra "reach"
Do you get there via enlargement
OR
Via optics
If I have a choice
I'll take L-GLASS every time
2 cents worth of non-professional thinking
Do you get there via enlargement
OR
Via optics
If I have a choice
I'll take L-GLASS every time
2 cents worth of non-professional thinking
Jan 2, 2019 14:10:26 #
gordnanaimo wrote:
....... It only appears closer because the picture has been cropped down in the sensor.......
I think you have that the wrong way around.
Using an FF lens on a APS-C sensor results in a 'cropping' of the image circle of the lens, but the remaining portion of the image circle will fall on the entire APS-C sensor. A crop lens on a full frame camera will result in a smaller image circle falling on the sensor effectively cropping nearly 60% off even though they both have the same FoV. In other words, a FF lens on a 24 mp crop sensor will result in a 24 mp image whereas a crop lens on a 24mp FF sensor will 'crop' to somewhere around 9.6 mp.. Of course, the 24mp FF sensor will have bigger pixels than the more densely packed crop sensor which may offset some of the benefit of the larger pixel count in the APS-C image. I am not going to get into which method will produce the better enlargement.
Jan 2, 2019 14:18:27 #
wdross
Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
gordnanaimo wrote:
This may have been debated ad noseum here but I ju... (show quote)
What you have said is true. Where the real difference comes in is with the number of pixels and quality of the lense. For example, if a 20mp 4/3rds sensor were to be produced to full frame, it would be an 80mp sensor. And that would require a full frame lens that could resolve to 80mp or better. This also requires that a 4/3rds lens resolve to the same level as an 80mp or better lens for full frame. This is why not all of Olympus' OM film lenses work well on their 4/3rds cameras. And this is also true for shooting with a full frame lense on a APS-C sensor. The APS-C loses less quality because it is closer in size to the full frame sensor and most full frame lenses can resolve better than 50mp. It still is always best to shoot with a lens designed for the format.
Jan 2, 2019 16:18:05 #
repleo wrote:
I think you have that the wrong way around. br U... (show quote)
You read to much and you don't read enough. So read this:
https://photographylife.com/using-nikon-dx-lenses-on-fx-cameras
Jan 2, 2019 23:41:06 #
Gene51 wrote:
You read to much and you don't read enough. So read this:
https://photographylife.com/using-nikon-dx-lenses-on-fx-cameras
https://photographylife.com/using-nikon-dx-lenses-on-fx-cameras
Interesting article Gene. I assume you were pointing me towards the part '...Nikon 35mm f/1.8G DX and my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro DX. ... both of these lenses cover the full FX frame circle! ".....
Others here have previously pointed ot that the Sony E 10-18 (APS-C) lens provides a FF image on a FF sensor through most of its focal range. I have never been able to understand why that works - I still don't.
I have a Sony E 35mm / f1.8 (APS-C). I'll have to check see if it gives FF on my A7Rii or is it just specific to the Nikon.
Jan 3, 2019 05:49:42 #
Its amazing that people just don't grasp this issue. I was sitting with someone who was extolling the virtues of his micro 4/3rds system and telling me that his 300mm lens was much smaller and lighter than the 300mm lens on my full frame DSLR . It must be down to the marketing guys giving a false impression of what "effective field of view " means .
I didn't bother to try to explain and left the guy happy in his innocence.
A 300mm lens is just that, its focal length is not affected by the camera .
I didn't bother to try to explain and left the guy happy in his innocence.
A 300mm lens is just that, its focal length is not affected by the camera .
Jan 3, 2019 06:19:27 #
gordnanaimo wrote:
Well I am a professional photographer and have been since the first slr's came out.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you mean 35mm SLRs, that puts you at +/- 100 years old with a pro career of at least 81 years as the first 35mm SLR hit the market in 1937. Did you jump on the SLR train from their inception or for you have a preferred legacy technology that you hung onto! What was the reason you adopted SLRs when you did? Can you regale us with accounts of the early SLRs, their strength and issues? Inquiring minds want to know.
Jan 3, 2019 06:19:57 #
Jan 3, 2019 06:29:30 #
billnikon
Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
gordnanaimo wrote:
This may have been debated ad noseum here but I ju... (show quote)
That is very true. BUT, with a cropped sensor you may be able to put more EFFECTIVE MEGAPIXELS on the subject. That is, if you fill the frame with a cropped at 24 mg. and you have to crop your shot using a full frame (provided the full frame has the same mg. camera, not a 40+mg. camera) then the shot with the cropped sensor will have more megapixels on the subject and should give you a sharper image. NOW of course if you have a 45 mg. full frame you may be able to, even with cropping, to put as many EFFECTIVE MEGAPIXELS of the subject also.
Jan 3, 2019 06:30:26 #
Hammer wrote:
Its amazing that people just don't grasp this issu... (show quote)
Yup. And my Fuji 18-55 f/2.8-4.0 & 55-200 f/3.5-4.8 are way lighter than my Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 & 80-200 f/2.8. Trying to explain why the fixed 2.8 results in larger, heavier glass regardless of body format is usually a waste of breath. Thrn trying to explain how smaller sensors need even larger apertures (smaller numerically) to get the same DOF, and what that means to lens size, well, I would rather spend the time shooting.
Jan 3, 2019 07:16:11 #
gordnanaimo wrote:
This may have been debated ad noseum here but I ju... (show quote)
The key distinction is nothing is really being "cropped" and a lens is a lens is a lens (nothing will change the optics of a lens except a TC or something else that affects magnification or refraction) - unless using one of the crop modes you are using the full sensor with an APSC body, and you are getting more pixels per mm2 - higher pixel density (given same # MP on both). This is often preferable to using a TC and/or longer heavier lens on a FF body. Staying further away from your skittish subjects helps too. On the flip side FF is preferable for low light situations. I often considered even going to M4/3 to get even more "reach"...in reality just capturing a smaller area of the lens projection. Another related subject debated ad nauseum here is cropping a FF image to APSC vs APSC.... the upshot is: use whatever you are comfortable with but it boils down to optics/IQ vs. gravity/$$.
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