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Cause of Centurylink Internet Failure
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Dec 30, 2018 10:15:56   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
IDguy wrote:
Yes, local outages due to equipment failure are possible. But this was nationwide. Not possible due to hardware failure.

Although it did go somewhat beyond Centurylink (e.g. Verizon was out in parts of Idaho) it didn’t propogate to the entire Internet.

It is possible that Centurylink did it to themselves with a bug in a software update. I can understand why they wouldn’t want to own up to that.


No Centurylink outage that I am aware of here in Eastern Iowa.

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Dec 30, 2018 12:32:32   #
ecblackiii Loc: Maryland
 
IDguy wrote:
I have had no success finding even speculation as to the cause of the massive extended failure of the Centurylink communication system. I found one reference to a Centurylink communication person claiming it wasn’t due to hacking. And there have been no Centurylink explanations as to what caused it.

Recall that the birth of the Internet was from a governmet system designed to be impervious to system failure from a nuclear attack. That should protect it from a propogating system failure such as caused the huge power grid failures some years ago.

I’m not big on conspiracy theories but the continuing silence on this is disturbing.
I have had no success finding even speculation as ... (show quote)


Actually, the internet creation had nothing to do with being impervious to nuclear attack. It used public telephone networks and was just as vulnerable as the civilian telephone system. The internet was originally called the "ARPANET" and was created simply to promote sharing of ideas among a select group of "thinkers" (scientists and officers of the Army). The intent was to accelerate the development of big ideas by enabling the rapid collaboration of many people contributing thoughts from different perspectives. Later the Army Research Projects Agency (ARPA) became what is now known as the Defense Research Projects Agency,

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Dec 30, 2018 12:59:08   #
Bigmike1 Loc: I am from Gaffney, S.C. but live in Utah.
 
Mine has been down since about 2015. (:

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Dec 30, 2018 14:01:48   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
ecblackiii wrote:
Actually, the internet creation had nothing to do with being impervious to nuclear attack. It used public telephone networks and was just as vulnerable as the civilian telephone system. The internet was originally called the "ARPANET" and was created simply to promote sharing of ideas among a select group of "thinkers" (scientists and officers of the Army). The intent was to accelerate the development of big ideas by enabling the rapid collaboration of many people contributing thoughts from different perspectives. Later the Army Research Projects Agency (ARPA) became what is now known as the Defense Research Projects Agency,
Actually, the internet creation had nothing to do ... (show quote)


True that initial creation did not. But once the military realized its potential, “Paul Baran, a researcher at the RAND Corporation think tank, first introduced the idea. Baran was instructed to come up with a plan for a computer communications network that could survive nuclear attack and continue functioning. He came up with a process that he called “hot-potato routing,” which later became known as packet switching.”

Also, “According to Stephen J. Lukasik, who as Deputy Director and Director of DARPA (1967–1974) was "the person who signed most of the checks for Arpanet's development":

The goal was to exploit new computer technologies to meet the needs of military command and control against nuclear threats, achieve survivable control of US nuclear forces, and improve military tactical and management decision making.[42]”

And yes, there are many that deny that.

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Dec 30, 2018 15:16:13   #
anderzander
 
Bigmike1 wrote:
I am not a fan of Centurylink. I have a q.com e-mail address that I have been unable to access for some years now. Their page for re-setting my password refuses to let me reset it. I tried calling but only get referred back to the reset password page. I did talk to some guy in India once. You can imagine how that went.


Most people don't understand corporate structure. One of the buildings hit by debry from 911 was the Bell Telephone building across the street from the WTC, that building now has a sign that says Verizon.
ATT out west became Ma Bell or Mountain Bell, it then became US West, then Quest and now Century Link, the main junction sites as in buildings are the same old Mountain Bell building in Salt Lake City with another exchange building or service building in Sugar House. Century Link was a company that went to Wall Street, found lots of money and started buying up regional telephone companies, first in the south and then started buying up anything they could get their hands on. All of the main hardware from the begining has been ATT or the breakup to create MA BELL. Century Link in Utah along the Wasatch Front was controlled in downtown Salt Lake by the old Mountain Bell, the regional manager of this large network is now in Boise so go figure, CENTURY LINK is a JOKE, new image and nothing more, and their service is pathetic.

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Dec 30, 2018 15:25:46   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
anderzander wrote:
Most people don't understand corporate structure. One of the buildings hit by debry from 911 was the Bell Telephone building across the street from the WTC, that building now has a sign that says Verizon.
ATT out west became Ma Bell or Mountain Bell, it then became US West, then Quest and now Century Link, the main junction sites as in buildings are the same old Mountain Bell building in Salt Lake City with another exchange building or service building in Sugar House. Century Link was a company that went to Wall Street, found lots of money and started buying up regional telephone companies, first in the south and then started buying up anything they could get their hands on. All of the main hardware from the begining has been ATT or the breakup to create MA BELL. Century Link in Utah along the Wasatch Front was controlled in downtown Salt Lake by the old Mountain Bell, the regional manager of this large network is now in Boise so go figure, CENTURY LINK is a JOKE, new image and nothing more, and their service is pathetic.
Most people don't understand corporate structure. ... (show quote)


Perhaps. But unless one wants to spend three times as much for Satellite they are the only choice for Internet and landline phone sevice where I live. And there is no real cell service either. By wandering outside I sometimes get Verizon text service. That went down too.

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Dec 30, 2018 15:30:33   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
Well, here is an initial leak as to the cause. But as the article concludes, it is hard to see how a component failure could propogate like that. And investigations will continue.

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/report-huge-centurylink-outage-caused-bad-networking-card-colorado/

Centurylink still ignores leveling with all their customers.

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Dec 30, 2018 15:40:11   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
My email service was provided by a company 20 odd years ago. This company was taken over (or merged etc) 3 times before emerging as a major player here in NZ. This company has recently decided to stop providing an email service (much to my and 200,000 others annoyance).
About 2-3 years ago I had a problem and I asked the company why. Their answer was that they were still using the original software and didn't want to change it for something more modern. Obviously it got too much to manage so it was easier for them to pull the plug than to change.
I suspect you will find that Century Link is most likely still using old software and hardware and is now operating at dozens of times higher capacity than was ever planned. Hence problems.

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Dec 30, 2018 16:45:21   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
chrissybabe wrote:
My email service was provided by a company 20 odd years ago. This company was taken over (or merged etc) 3 times before emerging as a major player here in NZ. This company has recently decided to stop providing an email service (much to my and 200,000 others annoyance).
About 2-3 years ago I had a problem and I asked the company why. Their answer was that they were still using the original software and didn't want to change it for something more modern. Obviously it got too much to manage so it was easier for them to pull the plug than to change.
I suspect you will find that Century Link is most likely still using old software and hardware and is now operating at dozens of times higher capacity than was ever planned. Hence problems.
My email service was provided by a company 20 odd ... (show quote)


I agree an undiscovered software glitch is more likely than a propagating hardware issue. Software has become so complex it is impossible to discover all vulnerabilities.

And it still might be caused by a hack...masquerading as something else. I think that’s what we did to Iran’s Uranium enrichment centrifuges.

I don’t know if it is better to admit to engineering or security failures.

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Dec 30, 2018 17:57:12   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
IDguy wrote:
I don’t know if it is better to admit to engineering or security failures.


In the US, neither, as somebody will sue you.
Hence you drift through a cloud of never knowing just what is happening.

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Dec 30, 2018 18:35:30   #
MtManMD Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
 
alx wrote:
Not saying this is it, but possible since it centered around one company...

IF a routing table was scrambled and then propagated within that company's routers, it could cause widespread outages. NOTE: this is speculative at best.

Such an occurrence could be accidental or deliberate. With an increased use of foreign routers, there is a greater chance of vulnerability. Once upon a time, CISCO routers were the standard in the US. The increased use of Huawei routers does pose a threat as Huawei has been shown to have ties to the Chinese government.

The use of the internet for so much of our business and banking at this point makes it a target for totally disrupting the economy. At some point it almost becomes inevitable.
Not saying this is it, but possible since it cente... (show quote)


I agree, a couple of years ago one of the major cloud infrastructures (can't remember Microsoft's or Amazon's) was taken down due to a tech applying maintenance incorrectly to one of the core routers, which then propagated to other routers. This sounds like a similar incident, but I haven't heard a cause yet. I'm sure there are many safeguards in place, but there's always some way to break the best of designs. With a recent build-out of a new data center and move of my company's corporate headquarters, I put in two redundant separate telecom provider services, over different "last mile" providers, and I'm still paranoid. And, the CFO hates it every time the bills come in.

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Dec 30, 2018 20:17:37   #
alx Loc: NJ
 
MtManMD wrote:
I agree, a couple of years ago one of the major cloud infrastructures (can't remember Microsoft's or Amazon's) was taken down due to a tech applying maintenance incorrectly to one of the core routers, which then propagated to other routers. This sounds like a similar incident, but I haven't heard a cause yet. I'm sure there are many safeguards in place, but there's always some way to break the best of designs. With a recent build-out of a new data center and move of my company's corporate headquarters, I put in two redundant separate telecom provider services, over different "last mile" providers, and I'm still paranoid. And, the CFO hates it every time the bills come in.
I agree, a couple of years ago one of the major cl... (show quote)

As a former CIO, now retired, in an industry that relied on PAYING employees on a weekly basis, I lived in fear of the day of the Great Internet Attack. Management loved the cost savings of Direct Deposit. I always warned to be sure we had REAL, CURRENT SNAILMAIL ADDRESSES so that we could pay our people (in 45+ states) by old fashioned surface mail addresses when it happened.

We are so vulnerable and few realize it.

If you think this is just paranoia, we did have a situation a few years back where our primary bank was brought down for 2 days from a DDS (Denial of Service) Attack. That was a very small, narrow attack. A real attack would deny payment of employees across 45+ states for an unknown period. This doesn't take into account that a real attack would keep the company from even knowing what hours the employees worked and what to pay them.

If that future attack brings down the ATM system, which it could and would, the employees would not just get cut off from payment, they would be cut off from their already existing funds.

Frightening, but real, possibilities.

We have the enemies out there that would love to do it, and believe you me, they are ready to do it when the moment is right.

Even only a 25% hit could cripple the economy and cause widespread panic and genuine suffering. How would the people you know fare if they didn't get paid and couldn't access their ATM for even a week? The vast majority live on a paycheck to paycheck basis. :(

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Dec 31, 2018 11:13:02   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
alx wrote:
As a former CIO, now retired, in an industry that relied on PAYING employees on a weekly basis, I lived in fear of the day of the Great Internet Attack. Management loved the cost savings of Direct Deposit. I always warned to be sure we had REAL, CURRENT SNAILMAIL ADDRESSES so that we could pay our people (in 45+ states) by old fashioned surface mail addresses when it happened.

We are so vulnerable and few realize it.

If you think this is just paranoia, we did have a situation a few years back where our primary bank was brought down for 2 days from a DDS (Denial of Service) Attack. That was a very small, narrow attack. A real attack would deny payment of employees across 45+ states for an unknown period. This doesn't take into account that a real attack would keep the company from even knowing what hours the employees worked and what to pay them.

If that future attack brings down the ATM system, which it could and would, the employees would not just get cut off from payment, they would be cut off from their already existing funds.

Frightening, but real, possibilities.

We have the enemies out there that would love to do it, and believe you me, they are ready to do it when the moment is right.

Even only a 25% hit could cripple the economy and cause widespread panic and genuine suffering. How would the people you know fare if they didn't get paid and couldn't access their ATM for even a week? The vast majority live on a paycheck to paycheck basis. :(
As a former CIO, now retired, in an industry that ... (show quote)


Good points. Some ATMs were down and many businesses were unable to process payments in this one. And many 911 services went down. The media and FCC seem focused on the last. Perhaps because FCC can’t regulate Internet.

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Dec 31, 2018 11:59:02   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
Just heard news of malware attack on US newspapers. Possibly from China or N Korea. At least they admit it.

I wonder if Centurylink will drop the other shoe?

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