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An observation about crop frame vs new, higher resolution full frames now and coming soon
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Dec 27, 2018 10:26:02   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
1. For a given physical focal length, the image formed of a given object at a given distance will be the same regardless of sensor size.
2. The crop frame camera such as the a6xxx series Sony's gets an apparent multiplier not just by cropping the frame but by greater pixel density (px/mm sq).
3. Using the size and resolution of the Nikon Z7 as a point of comparison, the focal length multiplier of The Sony a6500 would be 1.08, not the popular concept of 1.5. This is the number you get for an equal DPI print.

If Sony's next R model matches or exceeds the Z7 then the focal length advantage of the crop frame series goes away at least until that one changes. This is noteworthy because the Nikon manages to equal or better the dynamic range of the a7R3 even while using more/smaller pixels.

Would you give up 8% in order to get the higher IQ of the full frame? I would! If Sony goes 1-up on Nikon for the a7R4 (if it is ever produced) it would almost completely negate the multiplier except for un-cropped prints.

That would leave the a6700 or a7000 with a weight and size advantage but not much else (price ignored). Does this mean that Sony will cram more pixels into the next high end APS-C?

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Dec 27, 2018 10:54:39   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Myths about full-frame cameras

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Dec 27, 2018 14:46:36   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
a6k wrote:
1. For a given physical focal length, the image formed of a given object at a given distance will be the same regardless of sensor size.
2. The crop frame camera such as the a6xxx series Sony's gets an apparent multiplier not just by cropping the frame but by greater pixel density (px/mm sq).
3. Using the size and resolution of the Nikon Z7 as a point of comparison, the focal length multiplier of The Sony a6500 would be 1.08, not the popular concept of 1.5. This is the number you get for an equal DPI print.

If Sony's next R model matches or exceeds the Z7 then the focal length advantage of the crop frame series goes away at least until that one changes. This is noteworthy because the Nikon manages to equal or better the dynamic range of the a7R3 even while using more/smaller pixels.

Would you give up 8% in order to get the higher IQ of the full frame? I would! If Sony goes 1-up on Nikon for the a7R4 (if it is ever produced) it would almost completely negate the multiplier except for un-cropped prints.
I think you've way too much time on your hand. Who cares how many pixels do what, as long as the image quality satisfies your demand?

That would leave the a6700 or a7000 with a weight and size advantage but not much else (price ignored). Does this mean that Sony will cram more pixels into the next high end APS-C?
1. For a given physical focal length, the image fo... (show quote)

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Dec 27, 2018 14:52:25   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
I think you've got way too much time on your hand, who cares how many pixels do what, as long as the image quality satisfies your demand?

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Dec 27, 2018 16:51:38   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
speters wrote:
I think you've got way too much time on your hand, who cares how many pixels do what, as long as the image quality satisfies your demand?
I think that the tendency of some UHHers to criticize a person without knowing anything about him is really sad. If you don't care then ignore me. Others may be interested.

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Dec 27, 2018 17:16:50   #
n3eg Loc: West coast USA
 
a6k wrote:
If you don't care then ignore me. Others may.

It's getting closer and closer...

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Dec 27, 2018 17:54:40   #
User ID
 
a6k wrote:
1. For a given physical focal length, the image formed of a given object at a given distance will be the same regardless of sensor size.
2. The crop frame camera such as the a6xxx series Sony's gets an apparent multiplier not just by cropping the frame but by greater pixel density (px/mm sq).
3. Using the size and resolution of the Nikon Z7 as a point of comparison, the focal length multiplier of The Sony a6500 would be 1.08, not the popular concept of 1.5. This is the number you get for an equal DPI print.

If Sony's next R model matches or exceeds the Z7 then the focal length advantage of the crop frame series goes away at least until that one changes. This is noteworthy because the Nikon manages to equal or better the dynamic range of the a7R3 even while using more/smaller pixels.

Would you give up 8% in order to get the higher IQ of the full frame? I would! If Sony goes 1-up on Nikon for the a7R4 (if it is ever produced) it would almost completely negate the multiplier except for un-cropped prints.

That would leave the a6700 or a7000 with a weight and size advantage but not much else (price ignored). Does this mean that Sony will cram more pixels into the next high end APS-C?
1. For a given physical focal length, the image fo... (show quote)



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Dec 27, 2018 17:56:31   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
a6k wrote:
1. For a given physical focal length, the image formed of a given object at a given distance will be the same regardless of sensor size.
2. The crop frame camera such as the a6xxx series Sony's gets an apparent multiplier not just by cropping the frame but by greater pixel density (px/mm sq).
3. Using the size and resolution of the Nikon Z7 as a point of comparison, the focal length multiplier of The Sony a6500 would be 1.08, not the popular concept of 1.5. This is the number you get for an equal DPI print.

If Sony's next R model matches or exceeds the Z7 then the focal length advantage of the crop frame series goes away at least until that one changes. This is noteworthy because the Nikon manages to equal or better the dynamic range of the a7R3 even while using more/smaller pixels.

Would you give up 8% in order to get the higher IQ of the full frame? I would! If Sony goes 1-up on Nikon for the a7R4 (if it is ever produced) it would almost completely negate the multiplier except for un-cropped prints.

That would leave the a6700 or a7000 with a weight and size advantage but not much else (price ignored). Does this mean that Sony will cram more pixels into the next high end APS-C?
1. For a given physical focal length, the image fo... (show quote)


OMG!

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Dec 27, 2018 18:06:58   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
a6k wrote:
2. The crop frame camera such as the a6xxx series Sony's gets an apparent multiplier not just by cropping the frame but by greater pixel density (px/mm sq).


NO! Since the physically smaller sensor isn't going to see all of what the full frame sensor sees, it doesn't matter how many pixels it has.

--

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Dec 27, 2018 20:24:56   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
Bill_de wrote:
NO! Since the physically smaller sensor isn't going to see all of what the full frame sensor sees, it doesn't matter how many pixels it has.

--

The assumption that is implicit in your stated case would be that the subject size is an issue. But let's start with the subject size that you'd have if you were using a crop frame camera because of the 1.5 multiplier. In that case, the larger sensor would have the exact same size image projected onto it but there would also be more content at the edges (assumes centering subject).

If you have the larger sensor and you crop in PP to the same frame size then the issue is whether or not the crop sensor gave you an advantage. Take for example an a6500 vs an a7R3. In that case, the image on the a7R3 has about 15% fewer pixels and can only make a somewhat smaller print at the same DPI.

If a hypothetical a7R4 has higher resolution (equal or greater than Nikon Z7) then, since the sensor physical dimensions have not changed, the number of pixels per area will be proportionally greater than the a7R3 and depending on just how much higher the resolution, would come closer to the printable dimensions of the a6500. The printable dimension of the a6500 would be only 8% longer or even less if Sony tops Nikon.

The interesting question is DR and the related low light ability. The Nikon has more pixels and thus more pixel density than the a7R3 and from that you'd expect some loss of DR and/or sensitivity but in real life they managed to give it equal or greater DR anyhow. The Z7 and the a7R3 both exceed the DR of the a6500 by a full stop or more.

If you are only showing your picture on a monitor that is a lot lower in resolution than the original image then you'd be correct that the pixel count is not important. But if you are doing strong cropping (think small birds) then it matters and if you are printing then it may well matter.

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Dec 27, 2018 20:26:43   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
User ID, if you are so idle, have nothing else to do, why not just find a posting that does interest you?

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Dec 27, 2018 20:44:01   #
User ID
 
`


a6k wrote:
..... so idle, have nothing else to do .....



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Dec 28, 2018 06:07:37   #
kd7eir Loc: Tucson, AZ
 
The lack of FACTS and the prevalence of uninformed OPINION by the OP is staggering.

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Dec 28, 2018 06:21:03   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
a6k wrote:
I think that the tendency of some UHHers to criticize a person without knowing anything about him is really sad. If you don't care then ignore me. Others may be interested.


If you are that thin skinned, I advise not posting here.

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Dec 28, 2018 07:23:04   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
kd7eir wrote:
The lack of FACTS and the prevalence of uninformed OPINION by the OP is staggering.

Exactly which relevant facts were missing and which opinion was uninformed? If I'm FOS I'd like to fix it.

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