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Noise in Nikon D750 Photographs at Higher ISO Settings
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Dec 19, 2018 10:51:46   #
jcwall396 Loc: Roswell, GA
 
CamB wrote:
As many have said, underexposing and then boosting in post tends to show noise in the shadows. Two things I do when there isn't much light. One: I use the power of digital and, at really slow shutter speeds with static subjects, I shoot multiple shots of the same thing. I am not talking about burst mode, but, four, five or six identical seperate shots. On the computer one of those is almost always way sharper than the rest. One shot or six shots, the cost is the same. Two: Sometimes if I boost the shadows and they start to look bad, I decide if I really need the detail there. If I don't I will let them stay dark, hiding the noise, and then do something to draw the viewers eye to the main subject. I would usually rather have dark shadows than noisy shadows.
...Cam
As many have said, underexposing and then boosting... (show quote)


Good idea Cam! I shoot in burst mode occasionally using bracketed shots for high contrast scenes, but didn't want to do that here. I like your idea of taking several shots using the same settings!

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Dec 19, 2018 11:03:47   #
jcwall396 Loc: Roswell, GA
 
amfoto1 wrote:
I agree with a lot of the points already made here....

To minimize noise in images, do all you can to avoid under-exposure. If you have to boost exposure in post-processing, that will always amplify noise. Pf course, it helps to minimize cropping, too.

It seems counter-intuitive, but often works out better to use a higher ISO that allows slight over-exposure.... not to the point of blown highlights. However, when there are light bulbs in an image (as in this case), or exterior daylight coming in a window, you WILL see the histogram going off the right edge and shouldn't be too concerned about it. Higher shutter speed and smaller aperture might be useful, too... depending upon the lens and your skills hand holding shots.

BTW, there are other types of supports besides tripods.... a monopod or even a "poor man's tripod". That's a length of cord with a bolt on one end that screws into the tripod socket of your camera and a loop on the other end that you step into, to hold the cord taut while taking a shot. Believe it or not, it works! Steadies your shot.... plus you can coil it up and tuck it in a pocket.

I don't find the noise in the original poster's images objectionable. In fact, it sort of ties into the vintage theme of the room that was photographed. And it's really not obvious unless you look at the image really large... 50% or larger (... and "50%" is about 20x30" print equivalent, on most computer monitors these days, with an uncropped image from a 24MP camera).

However, previous posts are correct that various noise reduction methods. In my opinion, it's most ideal to do NR from a RAW file... And NR should be done early in post-processing, before changing size and DEFINITELY well before doing any sharpening (which is usually best done as one of the final steps).

I hope you don't mind, I tried Imagenomic Noiseware on your photo, just to see what it could do. (I have Noiseware as a Photoshop plug-in, but also available as a stand alone software.) I only applied enough to reduce noise, tried to maintain as much detail as possible, and backed off when artifacts started to appear. If it were my image, I might lighten it further and experiment with some more advanced techniques in Noiseware. Here there's still some noise, but it's reduced a bit:
I agree with a lot of the points already made here... (show quote)


Thanks so much for your response - this is great information to have and definitely some things I can try. I don't typically shoot indoors, but it's a skill I'd like to acquire. I've seen several other replies here about upping the ISO even though you're right, it does seem counter-intuitive. I'm going to be shooting my great, great niece and nephew (1 1/2 and 3 years old) on Christmas Day opening their packages, so will absolutely need a higher shutter speed for that! I'll take your suggestions and practice a bit at home before the big day to see what I can get. And thanks for trying your modifications - always good to learn about other software tools that are available out there.

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Dec 19, 2018 12:37:45   #
Larryshuman
 
For great, great nephew and niece try using flash. If you have a Nikon flash tilt the head up at the 45 Deg position and pull out the bounce card. You will get excellent shots with no black shadow behind them. I did this at my great great nephew's 1st birthday party using a D300s,24~120 and a SB-900 and I can count the little guys eye lashes one at a time it is so very sharp and no noise in the shot.

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Dec 19, 2018 12:46:09   #
tomcat
 
Stanmckinney wrote:
I wish people would quit bad mouthing “crop” cameras. Many do a great job with high ISO. I bought a D7200 because of how good it was at high ISO. (24,000). Are you guys just trying to justify the fact you paid more for a camera?


Yes, it may be good at the ISO 24,000 and the camera settings that you shoot at, but how does it do if you increase the shutter speed to 1/1,000 sec and f/stop to f/5.6? Try that and see if you are pleased with the results. Those settings are typically what I have to use to shoot indoor basketball in a dim HS gym. I tried my D500 a couple of times, but the images are so noisy as to be unusable for me and cannot be cleaned up enough, even with Topaz AI Clear. So I use my D3s for the indoor shots. When I am outside shooting soccer and baseball, I definitely switch to the D500 because I like it's handling a lot better than the D3s. It is fast focusing and the fps are phenomenal at stopping the action. Each camera has its own niche and I use the bodies (same lenses for either) for the amount of available light. So for me personally, I'm not justifying my decisions to purchase FF because it's the only tool that will do what I need for the lighting I face. I also like to use my D500 for birds too because the DR is better than the D3s. The D3s was designed for low light back in 2008 and it's still the best Nikon available for shooting in low light conditions >12,500 ISO (although some will argue--and I can already anticipate the rebuttals--- but for some reason, Nikon decided with the D5 to move away from that market). I wish that the D500 would do better in low light for me because it's a lot lighter that the D3s tank--but the D3s color rendition and the clean images are absolutely stunning from this camera, even with the dim light, and I rarely have to adjust LR sliders. Sometimes, the results look like a 3-D image.

I am glad that you can get the D7200 to work for you because it is a great camera (I had the 7100 a couple of years ago, but traded it for the D500 for sports). I try to preface my comments based upon the shooting conditions that I face.

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Dec 19, 2018 12:48:51   #
tomcat
 
jcwall396 wrote:
Thanks so much for your response - this is great information to have and definitely some things I can try. I don't typically shoot indoors, but it's a skill I'd like to acquire. I've seen several other replies here about upping the ISO even though you're right, it does seem counter-intuitive. I'm going to be shooting my great, great niece and nephew (1 1/2 and 3 years old) on Christmas Day opening their packages, so will absolutely need a higher shutter speed for that! I'll take your suggestions and practice a bit at home before the big day to see what I can get. And thanks for trying your modifications - always good to learn about other software tools that are available out there.
Thanks so much for your response - this is great i... (show quote)


I think you'll have better luck getting a flash and bouncing it off the back corner of the room. See if you can get your hands on a used SB-800 flash (B&H or KEH)--it is the best flash that Nikon made.

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Dec 19, 2018 18:33:44   #
pmackd Loc: Alameda CA
 
There is an enormous difference in perceived noise at high ISO depending on the brightness or darkness of the scene, or in whether you are looking at the highlights or the shadows. A given ISO, aperture, and shutter speed may produce an image where noise in barely perceptible if the whole scene is on the bright side, whereas the shadows are horribly noisy. It's important to keep this in mind when shooting dark scenes or ones with a lot of shadow. That's when you need to do everything possible to bring the necessary ISO down.

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Dec 19, 2018 19:33:12   #
btbg
 
IDguy wrote:
Don’t know about that. Been hearing about “iso invariance” relative to my Z6. I think what it means is that above a certain iso it is the same to expose there and increase exposure in post as it is to increase iso for a correct exposure. And that number isn’t that high...like 800 or 1600.

https://improvephotography.com/34818/iso-invariance/

https://digital-photography-school.com/iso-invariance-exposure-triangle/



BTW both articles list D750 as iso invarient.


You may be right in normally lit areas, but where noise becomes a noticeable problem is in the shadows. Brightening shadows increases noise. Even if it becomes a wash with iso invarience it still makes more sense to expose for the shadows in the first place. That will diminish the appearance of the noise and will require much less post processing.

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Dec 19, 2018 19:40:32   #
btbg
 
ID guy, I forgot to add that the article that you referred to made the tests at base ISO versus a high iso, not 2,200 iso versus a higher iso. Big difference. Also, the article states that the big advantage of using base iso is so that the areas that you don't brighten have minimal noise. However, in the case of the poster the object was to bring out detail in the shadows, not let them run to black so that they won't show noise.

ISO invariance may have it's place in nighttime photography, but even with the D750 which the article says is ISO invariant despite only doing one test on it, interior photography is not the place to use it. As you brighten the scene in post processing the noise gets more noticeable.

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Dec 19, 2018 19:51:14   #
User ID
 
`

First off, it's "good" noise. IOW, a texture but no banding
or blotches of odd colors. It looks like you have no noise
reduction running at all in the camera nor in post. It also
does not seem to be hurting sharpness. OTOH 2200 is a
rather modest "high" ISO.

.

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Dec 19, 2018 22:34:21   #
User ID
 
User ID wrote:
`

First off, it's "good" noise. IOW, a texture but no banding
or blotches of odd colors. It looks like you have no noise
reduction running at all in the camera nor in post. It also
does not seem to be hurting sharpness. OTOH 2200 is a
rather modest "high" ISO.

.


Well, it's too late to edit my post, so I'm using this reply
to myself to offer you a sample that I shot for you, with
a D750, to illustrate what you can expect at high ISO if
you want to try an actual HIGH setting, in this example
ISO 12800. By the time I'd shot it, got it outa the card,
and ready to post, it was too late to append the earlier
post. If 12800 can look OK, then don't give up on 2200.
Your camera can handle it. Just experiment a bit.

Anywho, here ya go .....


(Download)

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Dec 19, 2018 22:58:52   #
DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX
 
I don't usually let my D750 push the ISO beyond 800. The new Z6 looks great at ISO 10,000. I suggest using a denoise program if the image is of any importance. I used Topaz DeNoise and Lightroom Classic with your image.
jcwall396 wrote:
Just got back from a wonderful trip to see the Biltmore Estate Christmas decorations and when I started reviewing my photographs, I noticed that there seemed to be a lot more noise than I would have expected at ISO 2200. I've heard all the great things about how the D750 can go up to 6400 and the noise is "acceptable" but this doesn't look right to me. So I'd like your opinions - maybe there's a setting I don't have correct? Or am I just overthinking it? Most of the photos I took were inside, and we weren't allowed to use flash or a tripod, of course, so these were all handheld, Manual mode, Aperture set at 2.8, shutter speed anywhere from 1/30 to 1/60, and ISO up to 2200. I'm including one of the photos for you to take a look at. Caveat: I did bump up the exposure in this photo bef posting as it was quite dark. If you'd like the original, I can re-post. Any opinions / feedback / recommendations / etc. will be appreciated!
Just got back from a wonderful trip to see the Bil... (show quote)


(Download)

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Dec 20, 2018 02:05:27   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
jcwall396 wrote:
Oops. Sorry about that. Both images are posted - the original and a second with a little brightening to see it.


You nailed the exposure, but this scene has considerable contrast and deep shadows. To get the best out of a situation like this you may want to shoot raw with the exact same settings. Raw will allow you to "lift" the shadows and provide a bit more latitude before you descend into "noise hell" - also, doing some luminosity masking you should be able to isolate the noisy shadow areas and be a bit more aggressive with contrast and noise reduction.

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