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Some members don't know it all, after all! re: lens filters
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Oct 10, 2018 13:56:54   #
Pepsiman Loc: New York City
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Clickety, I understand your concern, and I'm sure everyone who has a particular area of "expertise" notices how widespread this issue is.

For example, here's one of mine: an OP with a bridge camera will receive advice about stopping down to f/16 or f/22, but a bridge camera's smallest aperture is f/8 (one of the newest may go to f/11). Depth of field discussion should always take into consideration the type of camera, but often doesn't.

Misinformation combined with rude and condescending definitely can grate on one's nerves
Clickety, I understand your concern, and I'm sure ... (show quote)



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Oct 10, 2018 15:00:34   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
clickety wrote:
In response to drmax's 10/03/18 question about using filers for protection I responded the following on10/4/18:
"clickety wrote: Another "protection" point to consider is with the some of Canon L series a filter is an integral part of and completes the weatherproofing seal."

To which rmorrison1116 sarcastically replied:
Quote"Huh? Where did you hear that, from the guy who sells protective filters? I have over a dozen Canon L series lenses and not a single protective filter amongst them and I've never had any problems or need for a protective filter."End Quote.

I knew I had read what I said on more than one occasion. Today in reading a lens review on TheDigitalPicture.com site I found another reference.

In reviewing the EF 50mm F1.2L USM, Brian Carnathan writes:
Quote"The Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM Lens adds a feature lacking on the 85 L II but common on Canon's newer L series lenses - weather sealing. I should say weather-sealing-capable because a filter is required to complete the factory weather sealing. The front lens elements that extend/retract inside the lens barrel require a 72mm filter to complete their sealing. The filter attaches to the outer lens barrel - and does not rotate or extend."End Quote.

So this filter 'requirement obviously applies to more than one lens. I had provided correct information!

But my real point is, bellicose replies by 'old established' members often spreads or perpetuates false information. Times and technology advance and old cliches may no longer apply.

To all members, ifyou wish to wear the mantle of implied expertise, you must accept the responsibility of checking the accuracy of responses and the civility of presenting them.
Thank you.
In response to drmax's 10/03/18 question about usi... (show quote)


Two L-series lenses I use have built in "protective" elements. They're too large diameter for standard, screw-in filters (130mm and 150mm respectively, try to find filters in those sizes!)

And I have available high quality "protective" filters to fit all my other lenses... L-series or not. Those filters are among my least used items. I only install them when actually needed so they spend most of the time stored separate from the lenses in my camera bag. In fact, most situations where the filter might be needed, I don't want to be outdoors shooting anyway!

If you are out in a rain storm shooting... where weather is so bad that it's likely you and your gear will get soaked... by all means use a protection filter!

But don't make the mistake of thinking your gear is immune to the weather. No DSLR, lens or flash or accessory is truly "waterproof".

At a rainy Super Bowl a few years ago, Canon Pro Support was there with backup gear, but ran completely out of loaner cameras because the pros (who had no choice but to keep shooting in the rain) were shorting out their 1D-series left and right! And those were the best sealed and weather resistant cameras of the day.

It's pretty standard terminology in Canon's lens manuals... "to complete weather seal a filter is needed". Of course, Canon is only too happy to sell you extremely over-priced filters (they aren't even multi-coated, but cost more than most that are). Bryan at the-digital-picture.com is just repeating Canon's statement.

For more complete, reliable, "real world" info about the use, misuse, truths and myths about "protective" filters... Do yourself a favor and take a few minutes to watch this video (where the "protectiveness" of the filters is actually tested): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0CLPTd6Bds

Then make your own decisions... whether it's worth the expense to add protection filters to your kit. It doesn't matter to me at all, one way or another, what you do!

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Oct 10, 2018 17:12:47   #
Jerry Ward Loc: MO, Ozarks
 

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Oct 10, 2018 17:27:52   #
clickety
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Two L-series lenses I use have built in "protective" elements. They're too large diameter for standard, screw-in filters (130mm and 150mm respectively, try to find filters in those sizes!)

And I have available high quality "protective" filters to fit all my other lenses... L-series or not. Those filters are among my least used items. I only install them when actually needed so they spend most of the time stored separate from the lenses in my camera bag. In fact, most situations where the filter might be needed, I don't want to be outdoors shooting anyway!

If you are out in a rain storm shooting... where weather is so bad that it's likely you and your gear will get soaked... by all means use a protection filter!

But don't make the mistake of thinking your gear is immune to the weather. No DSLR, lens or flash or accessory is truly "waterproof".

At a rainy Super Bowl a few years ago, Canon Pro Support was there with backup gear, but ran completely out of loaner cameras because the pros (who had no choice but to keep shooting in the rain) were shorting out their 1D-series left and right! And those were the best sealed and weather resistant cameras of the day.

It's pretty standard terminology in Canon's lens manuals... "to complete weather seal a filter is needed". Of course, Canon is only too happy to sell you extremely over-priced filters (they aren't even multi-coated, but cost more than most that are). Bryan at the-digital-picture.com is just repeating Canon's statement.

For more complete, reliable, "real world" info about the use, misuse, truths and myths about "protective" filters... Do yourself a favor and take a few minutes to watch this video (where the "protectiveness" of the filters is actually tested): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0CLPTd6Bds

Then make your own decisions... whether it's worth the expense to add protection filters to your kit. It doesn't matter to me at all, one way or another, what you do!
Two L-series lenses I use have built in "prot... (show quote)


I care not what decision people make either as long as it's made with accurate information.

Brian is repeating what Canon has written, because they specifically specify the use of filters in order to complete the weatherproofing system on a few specific newer L series lens. I don't believe it's meant to apply to the whole line universally, nor do I believe they would specify such without it being so.

So let's agree to let people make their own decisions based on accurate reporting of the manufacturer's recommendations, not false opinion or rhetoric. After all it shouldn't matter to us as long as we don't mislead them.

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Oct 10, 2018 18:54:50   #
drmax
 
Thanks for your well considered and civil response. I’m amazed at the dramatic range of opinions and the venom with which it is presented. drmax

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Oct 10, 2018 21:16:42   #
User ID
 
Rongnongno wrote:

The real question is not your beef over an answer but...

WHY THE HELL DOES ONE HAS TO ADD A FILTER
TO COMPLETE THE DEFICIENT WEATHER SEALING
OF A LENS???

Anybody purchasing such a lens is a fool.




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Oct 11, 2018 13:48:35   #
GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI
 
Rongnongno wrote:
The real question is not your beef over an answer but...

WHY THE HELL DOES ONE HAS TO ADD A FILTER TO COMPLETE THE DEFICIENT WEATHER SEALING OF A LENS???

Anybody purchasing such a lens is a fool.


That sounds like faulty engineering to me

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Oct 11, 2018 14:40:43   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
GrandmaG wrote:
That sounds like faulty engineering to me


It's not faulty engineering, it's a requirement to attain the highest level of weather/dust sealing that Canon provides on some, but not all Canon L lenses. They are among the best sealed DSLR lenses even without the filter, but the addition of the filter makes them more so, and additionally protects the front element from blowing sand and debris in harsh windy conditions, which is also "weather". To suggest that Canon lenses suffer from faulty engineering with regard to weather sealing is just plain silly. Are you a mechanical engineer with experience in optics?

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Oct 11, 2018 15:00:12   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
I wouldn't call it faulty engineering but to make one pay extra when something is required to serve a purpose is a bit much. Especially considering the cost of them.
mwsilvers wrote:
It's not faulty engineering, it's a requirement to attain the highest level of weather/dust sealing that Canon provides on some, but not all Canon L lenses. They are among the best sealed DSLR lenses even without the filter, but the addition of the filter makes them more so, and additionally protects the front element from blowing sand and debris in harsh windy conditions, which is also "weather". To suggest that Canon lenses suffer from faulty engineering with regard to weather sealing is just plain silly. Are you a mechanical engineer with experience in optics?
It's not faulty engineering, it's a requirement to... (show quote)

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Oct 11, 2018 15:17:00   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
There are many people who claim that any filter degrades the image. So, Canon gave them lenses with no filter with the option to use one when shooting in adverse conditions. I have never used Canon, but I do believe they design and provide well designed products. Would I reject a lens that requires me to buy a filter if I want to shoot in the rain, no. I would use a filter in those conditions anyway.

Another mountain out of a molehill created by someone who thrives on doing just that.

--

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Oct 11, 2018 15:23:56   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
I wouldn't call it faulty engineering but to make one pay extra when something is required to serve a purpose is a bit much. Especially considering the cost of them.

I certainly understand your point. The same could be said for Canon's decision to not supply lens hoods wirh non L lenses. Having said that, even without the filter Canon L lenses tend to be very weather resistant. I think of the added filters as the icing on the cake.

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Oct 11, 2018 15:28:08   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Bill_de wrote:
There are many people who claim that any filter degrades the image. So, Canon gave them lenses with no filter with the option to use one when shooting in adverse conditions. I have never used Canon, but I do believe they design and provide well designed products. Would I reject a lens that requires me to buy a filter if I want to shoot in the rain, no. I would use a filter in those conditions anyway.

Another mountain out of a molehill created by someone who thrives on doing just that.

--
There are many people who claim that any filter de... (show quote)

Completely agree. I have L lenses myself. I do use filters on them in very adverse weather/dust/ blowing sand conditions, as I would with any lens from any manufacturer in similarly harsh conditions. In less harsh conditions I usually take them off.

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Oct 11, 2018 17:16:12   #
ecommons
 
Filter vs no filter is almost as ridiculous as Canon vs Nikon. It really makes little difference. A filter gives some protection, but it can be removed just before snapping the shutter. It is really up to the user.

I use a filter because I live in an area with wind and blowing sand. The filter protects the lens from pitting............ but sometimes I will remove the filter for a shot.......................go figure

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