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A Strange Occurrence Happened - Has Anybody Ever Seen This
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Oct 4, 2018 08:57:27   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
robertjerl wrote:
High temps, humidity, haze etc etc etc (and the use of a telephoto lens) will all produce degraded IQ and a sort of overall grey/blue cast with subdued colors, contrast and saturation. All the atmospheric distortion will be recorded by the camera while your brain/eye tend to smooth it out. Looking through a powerful scope or binoculars you can see the same results. Some of the old shots I took in Vietnam show the same effects and the further away the subject is the worse it will look.
It is one of the reasons why the "haze" filter and sliders in Lightroom, Photoshop and other PP apps were so welcome when they came out. Yes, you can do the same thing with other parts of the PP apps but having a combined "haze" adjustment made it easier and faster.

As to the make every shot count mind set and trying for perfect shots that need no PP. Well sometimes it just isn't possible to any great degree. I started with film in the 50s, then went digital in the late 90s and dropped film altogether by about 2003. It took me a while to get used to the idea of virtually unlimited shots available and I still shoot less than people who learned on digital, like my daughter - at a friend's wedding we were two of the 6 family and friends asked to photograph the wedding and reception (plus only God knows how many others doing it on their own of the aprx 200 people who attended) and I shot aprx 400 frames with my two bodies (and I did the "pose with Uncle so and so and friends XY&Z shots"), my daughter did over 1200 frames while also partying with her friends and helping with the food - many short bursts of people dancing. The digital camera and its burst setting is a God Send for any moving subjects, sports, action, wildlife, birds etc. - even if every frame is properly exposed and focused you will find a small % where the subject is in a great position/pose that no one is fast enough to spot, recognize and shoot on single shot with any high % of success.

By the way, your two wading birds, you are too far away and the haze/humidity in the air kept anything from being in focus.
I hope you don't mind but I did a quick 5 minute edit on the first one, with a crop - still not great but some improvements. I adjusted contrast, reduced highlights, tweaked colors and saturation and added some clarity. But as said the haze kept everything just a tad out of focus in addition to the contrast and color problems it introduced. I set PS to not save anything and deleted the image as soon as I loaded it to UHH. Your posts and my edit look better in download than the thumbnail.
High temps, humidity, haze etc etc etc (and the us... (show quote)


I shoot old school too. For me a full day is likely only 80 digital exposures. The most I've ever shot in a day was 160. Like if I were a very busy view camera user! LOL

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Oct 4, 2018 08:59:14   #
Goober Loc: Southeastern PA
 
I have had similar problems occur when shooting over a large body of water on a sunny day but much cooler temperatures in Nova Scotia and Glacier Bay in Alaska. I shot what I thought were nice images using a 400 mm lens on a FF camera as well as very long focal lengths on a bridge camera and when viewing on my computer screen I was disappointed to so a lot of distortion and lack of good focus. I originally though I had a camera/lens problem but my wife’s images with her camera showed the same results. I determined that the water surface, although very cold, absorbed enough heat from the sun to produce heat wave distortion in the atmosphere over the surface of the ocean water. In both instances the weather was sunny and clear, breezy and no noticeable fog or haze. The results of my images looked like they had been PP using a distortion filter. None of those images were useable unless just making a 4x6 photo. I never had this problem before with long lens shots like birds over water but I attribute what I experienced to the temperate differential between the reflected heat waves from the cold water into the the cold air rendering the heat waves very prominent.
Just my observation......

Goober

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Oct 4, 2018 09:04:38   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
LittleRed wrote:
This past summer I and my wife spent a very enjoyable trip doing a swing through western Canada and some of the northern U.S states. Our purpose was twofold, first birdwatching and secondly photography of those critters we saw. We visited many excellent wildlife areas in both countrys and collected close to 8000 to 9000 digital images. Two of the most excellent areas we visited were the C.J Sayer NWR in North Dakota and the Bowdoin NWR in Montana. This last one is a very special place especially for birders whom like to get good pictures of a large number of bird species all located in a fairly small area. I highly recommend that if you can visit here, DO!
It was at these places the strange occurrence/problem happened. It is something I had never run into before and hopefully will never again. I'll use our visit to Bowdoin to illustrate what occurred. As we were on a strict regimen we only allowed ourselves one day for this refuge. Luckily that day was sunny (perhaps too sunny). We spent a total of 8 to 9 hours in the refuge during which time I accumulated close to 800 images. The equipment I was utilizing was a Canon T6i DSLR along with two lenses, my walkabout Canon 300 L Prime along with my Tamron 150-600 G2 (on a tripod with a remote trigger). All through my field time I periodically checked the images on the small camera LCD screen and all appeared well. Any I thought were problematic were erased in the field at the time. I didn't bother to download the images to my laptop when returning to the motel but instead took the SD card from the shoot and stowed it away samely in my suitcase. I do this with all my shoots for each individual site visited. However, when I got home and downloaded these images to my desktop lo and behold I found that a large majority of the images (over 90%) were in fact very poor in quality, the focus of them apeared to be quite a bit off. They were to me basically unusable. They could not be cropped/enlarged to any extent, something which when taking pictures of small birds is essential. At first I thought I had a camera problem but an examination of pictures taken prior to these sites in British Columbia and also of pictures taken after at two refuges in Michigan (Seney and Shiawassee) illustrated that the camera was working flawlessly.
The only difference we could see that could have created the occurrence/problem was the weather conditions at the time. At this time in August we were in the middle of an extreme heat wave all through most of southern Canada and the northern USA. At the time of the shoot at Bowdoin the thermometre on our car was showing 105F and the humidity on the radio was pegged at 93%. Thusly we were in fact on August 10 taking our pics in very extreme temperatures and humidity. This was just as true when we proceeded and birded in North Dakota on the 12th. So, it appears that the cause of my problems and why I lost the use of many images was due to the very extreme weather conditions. Has any of you Hoggers ever run ito this type of problems. Up here in the great north we seldom ever see anything even close to those conditions. Myself, I've been behind a camera, either film or digital, for nigh onto 60 years and can honestly say I have never seen anything like that happen. Perhaps this was just a problem with my personal camera, but my wife also had some likewise problems but at a much lesser scale. (she uses a Canon T6s with a 300 L prime) so I don't think that is the reason. Or perhaps it is a Canon problem, I hope not. What say Hoggers, any thoughts on this??????
In conclusion I find that you cannot depend at all on the small LCD screen on the camera to any great extend and DON'T take any pics if you can help it when the temperature rises above 100F. I guess one could sing a ditty like Jerry Reed (I think) - “when yer hot yer hot”, while I would probably be singing “when it's hot it may be 2 hot”

LittleRed
This past summer I and my wife spent a very enjoya... (show quote)


It is most likely a Hot Wet Air thing with long lens optics. Not just high temperature per se. External heat alone should not affect the electronics of the camera system. One day this past July it was 117 degrees in the L.A. suburban city where I live. Los Angeles was 113 that same day, yet Death Valley was only 112! I did not notice anything weird with my cameras. We and or dogs were just uncomfortable!

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Oct 4, 2018 09:56:32   #
Bultaco Loc: Aiken, SC
 
Humidity shouldn't be a problem at your locations, heat waves will effect long shots. I"ve been out all day in 100+ temps on a ATV with no problems.

Reply
Oct 4, 2018 10:35:08   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
any possibility of fogging inside the camera / lens systems? In my experience transitions from A/C in the car to warm humid conditions outside can produce fog for a remarkably long time (an hour or more in my case).

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Oct 4, 2018 10:47:35   #
lsupremo Loc: Palm Desert, CA
 
LittleRed wrote:
This past summer I and my wife spent a very enjoyable trip doing a swing through western Canada and some of the northern U.S states. Our purpose was twofold, first birdwatching and secondly photography of those critters we saw. We visited many excellent wildlife areas in both countrys and collected close to 8000 to 9000 digital images. Two of the most excellent areas we visited were the C.J Sayer NWR in North Dakota and the Bowdoin NWR in Montana. This last one is a very special place especially for birders whom like to get good pictures of a large number of bird species all located in a fairly small area. I highly recommend that if you can visit here, DO!
It was at these places the strange occurrence/problem happened. It is something I had never run into before and hopefully will never again. I'll use our visit to Bowdoin to illustrate what occurred. As we were on a strict regimen we only allowed ourselves one day for this refuge. Luckily that day was sunny (perhaps too sunny). We spent a total of 8 to 9 hours in the refuge during which time I accumulated close to 800 images. The equipment I was utilizing was a Canon T6i DSLR along with two lenses, my walkabout Canon 300 L Prime along with my Tamron 150-600 G2 (on a tripod with a remote trigger). All through my field time I periodically checked the images on the small camera LCD screen and all appeared well. Any I thought were problematic were erased in the field at the time. I didn't bother to download the images to my laptop when returning to the motel but instead took the SD card from the shoot and stowed it away samely in my suitcase. I do this with all my shoots for each individual site visited. However, when I got home and downloaded these images to my desktop lo and behold I found that a large majority of the images (over 90%) were in fact very poor in quality, the focus of them apeared to be quite a bit off. They were to me basically unusable. They could not be cropped/enlarged to any extent, something which when taking pictures of small birds is essential. At first I thought I had a camera problem but an examination of pictures taken prior to these sites in British Columbia and also of pictures taken after at two refuges in Michigan (Seney and Shiawassee) illustrated that the camera was working flawlessly.
The only difference we could see that could have created the occurrence/problem was the weather conditions at the time. At this time in August we were in the middle of an extreme heat wave all through most of southern Canada and the northern USA. At the time of the shoot at Bowdoin the thermometre on our car was showing 105F and the humidity on the radio was pegged at 93%. Thusly we were in fact on August 10 taking our pics in very extreme temperatures and humidity. This was just as true when we proceeded and birded in North Dakota on the 12th. So, it appears that the cause of my problems and why I lost the use of many images was due to the very extreme weather conditions. Has any of you Hoggers ever run ito this type of problems. Up here in the great north we seldom ever see anything even close to those conditions. Myself, I've been behind a camera, either film or digital, for nigh onto 60 years and can honestly say I have never seen anything like that happen. Perhaps this was just a problem with my personal camera, but my wife also had some likewise problems but at a much lesser scale. (she uses a Canon T6s with a 300 L prime) so I don't think that is the reason. Or perhaps it is a Canon problem, I hope not. What say Hoggers, any thoughts on this??????
In conclusion I find that you cannot depend at all on the small LCD screen on the camera to any great extend and DON'T take any pics if you can help it when the temperature rises above 100F. I guess one could sing a ditty like Jerry Reed (I think) - “when yer hot yer hot”, while I would probably be singing “when it's hot it may be 2 hot”

LittleRed
This past summer I and my wife spent a very enjoya... (show quote)


I live in Palm Desert, CA, we haven’t had a day under 100 degrees since last May, even at night.

Now I don’t know what to do!

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Oct 4, 2018 10:53:37   #
Geegee Loc: Peterborough, Ont.
 
Did you have the same problem with both lenses or just one of them?

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Oct 4, 2018 12:50:34   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
I agree with many of the other posts... a lot of the problems was the atmospheric effects of heat and humidity.... especially since your examples are both shots of birds in water, where it would likely be even greater.

Both images can be greatly improved. I played around with them in Photoshop, too...

I think one key is to minimize cropping. In conditions like these, you need to get closer and "fill your viewfinder" as best possible. That's always a good policy, but especially when the atmosphere is working against you.

Aside from that, I used a fairly strong high pass filter for initial sharpening, then used a curves adjustment to boost contrast, then applied some unsharp mask. I got some edge artifacts on the 2nd image and retouched those out with a clone tool. I also actually added blur to the foreground and background of the 2nd image (which helps other portions of the image appear sharper).

Your whole story emphasizes the importance of checking one's images while on a trip, in order to know if you're having problems and be able to address them while you are still in the area.


(Download)


(Download)

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Oct 4, 2018 15:32:10   #
aubreybogle Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 
robertjerl wrote:
High temps, humidity, haze etc etc etc (and the use of a telephoto lens) will all produce degraded IQ and a sort of overall grey/blue cast with subdued colors, contrast and saturation. All the atmospheric distortion will be recorded by the camera while your brain/eye tend to smooth it out. Looking through a powerful scope or binoculars you can see the same results. Some of the old shots I took in Vietnam show the same effects and the further away the subject is the worse it will look.
It is one of the reasons why the "haze" filter and sliders in Lightroom, Photoshop and other PP apps were so welcome when they came out. Yes, you can do the same thing with other parts of the PP apps but having a combined "haze" adjustment made it easier and faster.

As to the make every shot count mind set and trying for perfect shots that need no PP. Well sometimes it just isn't possible to any great degree. I started with film in the 50s, then went digital in the late 90s and dropped film altogether by about 2003. It took me a while to get used to the idea of virtually unlimited shots available and I still shoot less than people who learned on digital, like my daughter - at a friend's wedding we were two of the 6 family and friends asked to photograph the wedding and reception (plus only God knows how many others doing it on their own of the aprx 200 people who attended) and I shot aprx 400 frames with my two bodies (and I did the "pose with Uncle so and so and friends XY&Z shots"), my daughter did over 1200 frames while also partying with her friends and helping with the food - many short bursts of people dancing. The digital camera and its burst setting is a God Send for any moving subjects, sports, action, wildlife, birds etc. - even if every frame is properly exposed and focused you will find a small % where the subject is in a great position/pose that no one is fast enough to spot, recognize and shoot on single shot with any high % of success.

By the way, your two wading birds, you are too far away and the haze/humidity in the air kept anything from being in focus.
I hope you don't mind but I did a quick 5 minute edit on the first one, with a crop - still not great but some improvements. I adjusted contrast, reduced highlights, tweaked colors and saturation and added some clarity. But as said the haze kept everything just a tad out of focus in addition to the contrast and color problems it introduced. I set PS to not save anything and deleted the image as soon as I loaded it to UHH. Your posts and my edit look better in download than the thumbnail.
High temps, humidity, haze etc etc etc (and the us... (show quote)



Thank you for this superb and informative critique. Many other readers in addition to OP will benefit from your accurate and concise analysis. This is what this site is all about.

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Oct 4, 2018 17:37:04   #
LittleRed
 
SonyA580 wrote:
The data for #1 says focus of 35' to infinity; #2 says 268' to 1857'. The distances for #1 sound reasonable but #2 is questionable. Looks like something is messin' with your focus. I don't have a clue what could do that except I sometimes use the AF Lock and forget to toggle it off.


#1 was shot at approx. 50' while #2 was at approx. 250' (measurements taken on Google maps)

LittleRed (Ron)

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Oct 4, 2018 17:42:31   #
LittleRed
 
Capn_Dave wrote:
That is strange I live and shoot in Florida. In the summer the humidity hit 99% all the time and it is not raining. If there is haze I can see it in the distance
I never have this problem if the subject is within 100 yards. Now it I am trying to shoot way out there, yes it is a problem. Lightroom's haze filter works
quite well and will salvage them.


Thanks Capn, this is what I was looking for. Makes me wonder if it is not just a minor glitch with my Canon.

LittleRed (Ron)

Reply
 
 
Oct 4, 2018 17:45:12   #
LittleRed
 
lamiaceae wrote:
I shoot old school too. For me a full day is likely only 80 digital exposures. The most I've ever shot in a day was 160. Like if I were a very busy view camera user! LOL


Good Gosh, a lot of the times I can take 80 in 10 minutes, especially a an active wildlife refuge.

LittleRed (Ron)

Reply
Oct 4, 2018 17:47:00   #
LittleRed
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I agree with the "weathermen."

A suggestion: make your posts shorter and have more paragraphs.


Yes Jerry, I do have a problem of not shutting up at times. At least thats what my wife says!!!!!

LittleRed (Ron)

Reply
Oct 4, 2018 17:50:22   #
LittleRed
 
Goober wrote:
I have had similar problems occur when shooting over a large body of water on a sunny day but much cooler temperatures in Nova Scotia and Glacier Bay in Alaska. I shot what I thought were nice images using a 400 mm lens on a FF camera as well as very long focal lengths on a bridge camera and when viewing on my computer screen I was disappointed to so a lot of distortion and lack of good focus. I originally though I had a camera/lens problem but my wife’s images with her camera showed the same results. I determined that the water surface, although very cold, absorbed enough heat from the sun to produce heat wave distortion in the atmosphere over the surface of the ocean water. In both instances the weather was sunny and clear, breezy and no noticeable fog or haze. The results of my images looked like they had been PP using a distortion filter. None of those images were useable unless just making a 4x6 photo. I never had this problem before with long lens shots like birds over water but I attribute what I experienced to the temperate differential between the reflected heat waves from the cold water into the the cold air rendering the heat waves very prominent.
Just my observation......

Goober
I have had similar problems occur when shooting ov... (show quote)

hh
Good thought Goober. Most my problem shots were over or near water. But even on some shots over land I had the same occurrance.

LittleRed (Ron)

Reply
Oct 4, 2018 17:53:07   #
LittleRed
 
Bultaco wrote:
Humidity shouldn't be a problem at your locations, heat waves will effect long shots. I"ve been out all day in 100+ temps on a ATV with no problems.


Thanks, an answer I was looking for. Dont know what you mean by long shots but most of the ones I made were at least 300' or less. I knew that real long shots in those conditions would be a no-no.

LittleRed (Ron)

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