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How You May Be Able To Make Your Crop Sensor Camera Have Better Image Quality Than A Full Frame Camera
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Sep 8, 2018 15:18:30   #
deanfl Loc: Georgia
 
User ID wrote:
What Bill said ... Period.

================

BTW, I'm not seeing any
connection between the
content of the opening
post and the thread title
... anyone DOES see it ?


`


Sure, I’ll give you two examples:

If you have a Nikon D7500 w/18-140 it shows Good image quality. Put a 50mm lens on it and it shows Very Good image quality.
If you have a Nikon D500 w/16-80 it shows Good image quality. Put a 50mm lens on it and it shows Very Good image quality.
All full frame Nikons tested, D610, D850, D750, and D810 show Good image quality.

By putting a 50mm lens on the crop sensor, according to these test results, you have made your crop sensor camera have better image quality than a full frame camera.

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Sep 8, 2018 21:22:52   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
deanfl wrote:
Ralph, I am guessing you are referring to the Sony Alpha A7RIII?? If so, they have that with Mirrorless cameras, with a score of 80, as a Recommended camera.

Not exactly, I was referring to the new Fuji X-T3 mirrorless flagship.

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Sep 8, 2018 22:02:30   #
deanfl Loc: Georgia
 
rjaywallace wrote:
Not exactly, I was referring to the new Fuji X-T3 mirrorless flagship.


Thanks for setting me straight....I see that’s one apparently available for pre-order.

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Sep 8, 2018 22:08:42   #
deanfl Loc: Georgia
 
Longshadow wrote:
Yes, off-the-shelf comparisons for the average person.


That is how I take it as well...thank you.

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Sep 8, 2018 22:18:30   #
deanfl Loc: Georgia
 
Wingpilot wrote:
And full frame cameras don't necessarily produce better image quality than crop sensor cameras. Image quality depends not only on the camera, but also the lens(s) used. What I can say is that a full frame camera generally has better dynamic range than a crop sensor camera, and, given the same number of megapixels on the sensor, performs better in low light and give better bokeh. (dependent on the lens in many cased).


Thank you for your input. I know most people won’t take the time to read my entire original post. If I had said, Try putting a prime lens or short zoom on your crop sensor camera....it might make the image quality as good or better than a full frame camera with a longer zoom lens....more people would probably agree with that statement.

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Sep 8, 2018 22:34:19   #
martinfisherphoto Loc: Lake Placid Florida
 
If I take a Ford Mustang (full frame) and add diesel fuel to the gas tank, then take a Yugo (crop sensor)and add premium gas to the tank, I would think the yugo would win every time in a race. Please show me where I can find info on their lab testing, I can't find it myself.
deanfl wrote:
Their ratings on automobiles contain survey results on overall reliability and owner satisfaction. It is my understanding that these camera ratings are based on results from tests run in their labs.

I am only telling you that they show some crop sensor/lens combinations show better image quality than full frame.

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Sep 8, 2018 22:52:37   #
deanfl Loc: Georgia
 
martinfisherphoto wrote:
If I take a Ford Mustang (full frame) and add diesel fuel to the gas tank, then take a Yugo (crop sensor)and add premium gas to the tank, I would think the yugo would win every time in a race. Please show me where I can find info on their lab testing, I can't find it myself.


I subscribe to the magazine. They offer digital access for a fee at consumerreports.org. I have their digital app on my phone. This is where I found their camera ratings. They have some camera ratings periodically in the magazine. These may not be as current or complete as the ratings on the phone app.

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Sep 8, 2018 23:13:32   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
deanfl wrote:
I subscribe to Consumer Reports and have their cell phone app on my phone. I recently checked their ratings on cameras. They have 6 categories. This post concerns the category of SLR cameras.

Here are the cameras that are RECOMMENDED, with 2 Canons designated as a Best Buy.

Score of 78. Sony Alpha 99II w/85 F2.8 SAM
Score of 74. Canon EOS 200D Rebel SL2 w/EF 50 mm, BEST BUY
Score of 73. Nikon D7200 w/18-55mm
Score of 72. Pentax K-1 w/FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited
Score of 72. Canon EOS 6D Mark II w/24-105mm IS STM
Score of 72. Nikon D7500 w/ AF-S 50mm
Score of 72. Canon 800D Rebel T7i w/50mm, BESTBUY
Score of 71. Nikon D500 w/AF-S 50mm 1:1.8G

What I find interesting is their opinion on Image Quality:
Image quality is based on tests performed in auto and manual mode using regular photos, low-light photos, and flash photos with consideration of their performance in terms of color reproduction, dynamic range, resolution, distortions, reflections, image stabilization, as well as movie quality.

They list 41 different camera, lens combinations. On Image Quality, they rate the top performers as Very Good. All the rest receive a Good rating.

For Nikon, there is only one model, in addition to the above mentioned, that received a Very Good rating on Image quality, the Nikon D5500 w/18-55 VR II, with a score of 68.

What really surprised me was how full framed Nikons scored....and they all received a Good, not Very Good on Image Quality.

Score of 61. Nikon D610 w/AF-S 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED
Score of 61. Nikon D850 w/AF-S 24-120mm
Score of 60. Nikon D750 w/AF-S 24-120mm f/4G ED VR
Score of 59. Nikon D810 w/AF-S 24-120 f/4 G ED VR

The following are the lowest scoring Nikons:

Score of 57. Nikon D500 w/AF-S DX 16-80mm f/2.8-4 E
Score of 53. Nikon D5600 w/18-140mm VR
Score of 53. Nikon D7500 w/16-80mm
Score of 47. Nikon D7500 w/18-140mm VR

I have the following observations, based on these ratings:

1. If I mount a prime lens on a camera, it is transformed into a top performer. The Nikon D7500 w/18-140 scores the lowest of all camera/lens combinations. With a 50mm prime lens it is a recommended camera, with a score of 72.

2. You don’t need to buy a full frame camera to get Very Good image quality. Both the Nikon D7200 and Nikon D5500, with kit zoom lens of 18-55 mm, showed better image quality than any full frame Nikon, including the Nikon D850.

3. The Nikon D7200 did very well, even with zoom lens. I shoot Nikon. Hence my concentration on that brand.

I did a previous post on Consumer Reports ratings when I was looking at getting a Nikon D7500. I was surprised at the low rating with the generally well regarded 18-140. That rating didn’t show results with a different lens, a 50mm prime, like this one does.

Previous responses were interesting. Many pointed out that they thought other resources were more credible. Like most people, I consult other resources as well. I thought the ranking of different camera/lens combinations could be useful on choosing cameras and lens. Some didn’t know CR was even around any more. Some didn’t agree with their ratings on some other product and thus chose not to care what they said about cameras.

Anyway, I thought the above could be helpful to somebody.
I subscribe to Consumer Reports and have their cel... (show quote)

You need to take Consumer Reports camera ratings with a grain of salt. They are generally geared to newbies, or those with little knowledge or interest in understanding the details, and use specific criteria they feel would seem important to their target audience. Their ratings are simplistically applied. If you truly wish to understand the quality differences between cameras and lenses, separately and in combination, you will need to educate yourself over time. Quick hit ratings like theirs, without knowing exactly which test methodologies were used, and without seeing seeing all the graphed test results which brought them to their conclusions, is useless. Go to some of the trusted review sites discussed in these pages, read the reviews and learn how to interpret the data and graphs.

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Sep 8, 2018 23:52:01   #
deanfl Loc: Georgia
 
mwsilvers wrote:
You need to take Consumer Reports camera ratings with a grain of salt. They are generally geared to newbies, or those with little knowledge or interest in understanding the details, and use specific criteria they feel would seem important to their target audience. Their ratings are simplistically applied. If you truly wish to understand the quality differences between cameras and lenses, separately and in combination, you will need to educate yourself over time. Quick hit ratings like theirs, without knowing exactly which test methodologies were used, and without seeing seeing all the graphed test results which brought them to their conclusions, is useless. Go to some of the trusted review sites discussed in these pages, read the reviews and learn how to interpret the data and graphs.
You need to take Consumer Reports camera ratings w... (show quote)


Thank you for taking the time to comment. I have come to realize that very few people on this site know about or care what CR has to say about camera ratings. I may be the only person here who pays for fee based digital access. This is partially the reason I did this post. I happen to believe that their detailed, independent lab results can be helpful in deciding what, if any, camera to buy. Most of us use multiple internet resources, then decide who or what to believe.

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Sep 9, 2018 00:03:34   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
deanfl wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to comment. I have come to realize that very few people on this site know about or care what CR has to say about camera ratings. I may be the only person here who pays for fee based digital access. This is partially the reason I did this post. I happen to believe that their detailed, independent lab results can be helpful in deciding what, if any, camera to buy. Most of us use multiple internet resources, then decide who or what to believe.

I've been a subscriber to Consumer's Reports for decades. You can believe their independent test results with regard to camera ratings if you wish. That is your choice. But they do not reflect the published test results of many respected testers, and as I said, CR publishes simplistic results aimed at a newbie audience.

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Sep 9, 2018 07:30:23   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I've been a subscriber to Consumer's Reports for decades. You can believe their independent test results with regard to camera ratings if you wish. That is your choice. But they do not reflect the published test results of many respected testers, and as I said, CR publishes simplistic results aimed at a newbie audience.

As I said, for the average person, not necessarily "newbies".

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