Are mirror-less cameras more susceptible to sun damage?
Aug 31, 2018 11:54:25 #
The Olympus E-M1, at least, maybe all of the E-Mx models have a serious problem with corruption of pixels in their organic LED (OLED) pixels in the EVF. One theory is that it is due to "overexposure" to the sun through the EVF lens. I'm skeptical that sun is the main source of this "green splotch" problem but the problem is very real and can make the EVF useless in very short order. Happened to my E-M1 twice in less than a year so I'm done with Olympus.
Aug 31, 2018 12:53:15 #
Aug 31, 2018 13:19:01 #
Darkroom317 wrote:
Though if you camera has a cloth shutter, the sun can burn pinholes or worse in the shutter. I had it happen to a Canon rangefinder recently. Current mirrorless cameras do not use cloth shutters so there is far less chance of such a problem.
I already mentioned that in a prior post about this subject, that it is the shutter blades one has to worry about in certain situations!
Aug 31, 2018 14:26:14 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
Say what?
AFAIK, there is no mechanical shutter of any type sitting in front of and "protecting" the image sensor of any mirrorless camera. They use an electronic shutter, which essentially just "captures" what the exposued image sensor is seeing at the instant the "shutter release" button is pressed. It's not like DSLRs/SLRs, which have a mirror redirecting the image through their optical viewfinder (which has to flip up out of the way during exposure) and behind that a mechanical shutter that controls the exposure of the image sensor hidden behind it. Someone might have designed a mirrorless with a shutter that drops in front of the image sensor, purely to protect it... but I'm not aware of any that use that.
In fact, when a mirrorless camera is on and it's electronic viewfinder is active, the camera's image sensor is what's capturing the image being displayed on the tiny LCD in the viewfinder.
The lack of a mirror (hence, "mirrorless") AND mechanical shutter are what allow mirrorless cameras to be smaller... to use a much shorter lens flange to sensor distance than DLSRs require. The electronic shutter also makes it possible for them to operate nearly silently, since there are no moving parts. Those are all good things.
The down side of this is that.... 1. the image sensor is on all the time whenever the electronic viewfinder is in use (much like a DSLR in Live View mode, but not when using its optical viewfinder), drawing power from the battery, gaining heat, and putting a lot more accumulated time on the image sensor and related electronics... and, 2. compared to a DSLR, the image sensor in a mirrorless camera is much more exposed to dust and/or possible damage during lens changes. Hence, yes, a mirrorless camera's sensor is less protected from exposure to the sun, too.... careless handling might damage the sensor, especially if the sun's heat is concentrated onto the sensor by a lens (ever used a magnifying glass to set things on fire?)
That's the sensor you're looking at inside that Sony A7III mirrorless, when it's lens is removed.
I"m not sure why it's relevant, since the question is about mirrorless... But Canon hasn't made a rangefinder camera using a cloth shutter in over 50 years. I think the Canon 7s, discontinued in 1967, was the last RF they made with one. Some of their SLRs continued using a cloth shutter a bit longer. The A-series (AE-1, A-1, AT-1, AV-1, etc.) all use a cloth shutter. The last of those (AE-1 Program and AL-1) were discontinued over 35 years ago, in 1982. Some Canon models concurrent with those (such as the F-1 in three versions) and all Canon SLRs and DSLRs since that I'm aware of have used a vertically traveling, metal bladed shutter (Copal or a variation of it). In the later cameras these are electronically controlled for accuracy (but so were some of their cloth shutters, too).
Yes, the shutter (cloth or metal) of a DSLR/SLR also can potentially be damaged by the sun too. Except in DSLRs and SLRs the shutter is hidden and protected behind a mirror most of the time.... except for the very instant of exposure when it flips up out of the way. Most of the time the mirror is in position to redirect all or most of the light through the pentaprism and viewfinder. (Some DSLR/SLR use a semi-transparent mirror to allow part of the light to pass through to metering and/or autofocus sensors behind.) It's different with rangefinder cameras. They don't provide "through the lens" viewing and have no mirror (allowing them to be smaller and use a shorter lens register, like mirrorless digital). A RF's shutter is more directly exposed to light coming through the lens or whenever the lens is removed for the camera.
AFAIK, there is no mechanical shutter of any type sitting in front of and "protecting" the image sensor of any mirrorless camera. They use an electronic shutter, which essentially just "captures" what the exposued image sensor is seeing at the instant the "shutter release" button is pressed. It's not like DSLRs/SLRs, which have a mirror redirecting the image through their optical viewfinder (which has to flip up out of the way during exposure) and behind that a mechanical shutter that controls the exposure of the image sensor hidden behind it. Someone might have designed a mirrorless with a shutter that drops in front of the image sensor, purely to protect it... but I'm not aware of any that use that.
In fact, when a mirrorless camera is on and it's electronic viewfinder is active, the camera's image sensor is what's capturing the image being displayed on the tiny LCD in the viewfinder.
The lack of a mirror (hence, "mirrorless") AND mechanical shutter are what allow mirrorless cameras to be smaller... to use a much shorter lens flange to sensor distance than DLSRs require. The electronic shutter also makes it possible for them to operate nearly silently, since there are no moving parts. Those are all good things.
The down side of this is that.... 1. the image sensor is on all the time whenever the electronic viewfinder is in use (much like a DSLR in Live View mode, but not when using its optical viewfinder), drawing power from the battery, gaining heat, and putting a lot more accumulated time on the image sensor and related electronics... and, 2. compared to a DSLR, the image sensor in a mirrorless camera is much more exposed to dust and/or possible damage during lens changes. Hence, yes, a mirrorless camera's sensor is less protected from exposure to the sun, too.... careless handling might damage the sensor, especially if the sun's heat is concentrated onto the sensor by a lens (ever used a magnifying glass to set things on fire?)
That's the sensor you're looking at inside that Sony A7III mirrorless, when it's lens is removed.
I"m not sure why it's relevant, since the question is about mirrorless... But Canon hasn't made a rangefinder camera using a cloth shutter in over 50 years. I think the Canon 7s, discontinued in 1967, was the last RF they made with one. Some of their SLRs continued using a cloth shutter a bit longer. The A-series (AE-1, A-1, AT-1, AV-1, etc.) all use a cloth shutter. The last of those (AE-1 Program and AL-1) were discontinued over 35 years ago, in 1982. Some Canon models concurrent with those (such as the F-1 in three versions) and all Canon SLRs and DSLRs since that I'm aware of have used a vertically traveling, metal bladed shutter (Copal or a variation of it). In the later cameras these are electronically controlled for accuracy (but so were some of their cloth shutters, too).
Yes, the shutter (cloth or metal) of a DSLR/SLR also can potentially be damaged by the sun too. Except in DSLRs and SLRs the shutter is hidden and protected behind a mirror most of the time.... except for the very instant of exposure when it flips up out of the way. Most of the time the mirror is in position to redirect all or most of the light through the pentaprism and viewfinder. (Some DSLR/SLR use a semi-transparent mirror to allow part of the light to pass through to metering and/or autofocus sensors behind.) It's different with rangefinder cameras. They don't provide "through the lens" viewing and have no mirror (allowing them to be smaller and use a shorter lens register, like mirrorless digital). A RF's shutter is more directly exposed to light coming through the lens or whenever the lens is removed for the camera.
Aug 31, 2018 15:40:00 #
Aug 31, 2018 15:42:35 #
Aug 31, 2018 15:49:05 #
So far for me, no.
No competent photographer would leave their camera pointed at the sun for a long time.
Has everyone forgotten the warnings from last year's eclipse?
No competent photographer would leave their camera pointed at the sun for a long time.
Has everyone forgotten the warnings from last year's eclipse?
Aug 31, 2018 19:52:13 #
`
That advice is exactly backwards, or reversed. The
smaller the image of the sun, the more the energy
is concentrated and thus the greater the risk.
If you know how to use a "burning glass" then this
is obvious. If not, just look it up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_glass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7nJ3wIxt3o
`
chrisg-optical wrote:
........
If the sun doesn't fill the frame it's ok to shoot
into the scene, back lit by the sunlight, to create
a deliberate "flare" effect which looks cool, but
it's still a good idea to keep exposure time
reasonable for handheld photography.
If the sun doesn't fill the frame it's ok to shoot
into the scene, back lit by the sunlight, to create
a deliberate "flare" effect which looks cool, but
it's still a good idea to keep exposure time
reasonable for handheld photography.
That advice is exactly backwards, or reversed. The
smaller the image of the sun, the more the energy
is concentrated and thus the greater the risk.
If you know how to use a "burning glass" then this
is obvious. If not, just look it up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_glass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7nJ3wIxt3o
`
Aug 31, 2018 20:10:59 #
`
"AFAIK"
.... but there is something more to know about that:
Advanced live view cameras do not rely on electronic
"shutters". They have mechanical shutters that close
and immediately open again, to create the exposure,
and then close and immediately open again, to end
the exposure and thus return to viewing mode.
I realize this sounds kinda crazy, but that's how they
work ... in default mode. They also have two optional
modes, one being fully electronic and the other being
mechanical just when ending an exposure, but fully
electronic to begin exposure.
The more or less generic terms for the three modes,
in the order in which they were described above, are:
1. Fully Mechanical [default mode]
2. Electronic First Curtain
3. Silent Mode [not to be confused with "Quiet Mode"]
`
amfoto1 wrote:
Say what?
AFAIK, there is no mechanical shutter of any type
sitting in front of and "protecting" the image sensor
of any mirrorless camera. They use an electronic
shutter, which essentially just "captures" what the
exposued image sensor is seeing at the instant the
"shutter release" button is pressed.............
AFAIK, there is no mechanical shutter of any type
sitting in front of and "protecting" the image sensor
of any mirrorless camera. They use an electronic
shutter, which essentially just "captures" what the
exposued image sensor is seeing at the instant the
"shutter release" button is pressed.............
"AFAIK"
.... but there is something more to know about that:
Advanced live view cameras do not rely on electronic
"shutters". They have mechanical shutters that close
and immediately open again, to create the exposure,
and then close and immediately open again, to end
the exposure and thus return to viewing mode.
I realize this sounds kinda crazy, but that's how they
work ... in default mode. They also have two optional
modes, one being fully electronic and the other being
mechanical just when ending an exposure, but fully
electronic to begin exposure.
The more or less generic terms for the three modes,
in the order in which they were described above, are:
1. Fully Mechanical [default mode]
2. Electronic First Curtain
3. Silent Mode [not to be confused with "Quiet Mode"]
`
Aug 31, 2018 23:13:48 #
IDguy
Loc: Idaho
amfoto1 wrote:
Say what? br br AFAIK, there is no mechanical sh... (show quote)
Nope. Many Mirrorless cameras (most, all?) have mechanical shutters. And my Lumix GM5 is as small as cameras get, pretty near.
Sep 1, 2018 12:15:29 #
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