Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

The K-70 is probably the best of all four/five of the beginner cameras, listed ... and a very capable, and sophisticated camera, it is, too - perhaps, a little too much so ... it's really a mid-range camera ... but, Pentax seems to have dropped the beginner cameras (K-S1, K-S2) which is why I'm torn between it and the Canon EOS Rebel SL-2 ... which not only has the same flip-out screen the K-70 has, but, it's Touch, too ... she'll like that, I'm sure. And, with people telling me Ricoh is about to pull the rug out from under the Pentax brand, perhaps, the Canon is the better choice. ... Woe betide, she runs into problems with it, in the second month, and there's nobody at a Service Operation, to deal with ... so, I am torn between the two - for sure, now, Les ...

graybeard

I studied the SL2, the T7i and the 77D because each had 24mp and latest processor. Strangely, the T7i is the most expensive, yet the 77D is the best all over, at least in what I consider important. The SL2 was cheapest, and probably best value, until I saw the 650 price for 77D. I presently have a T3, for the last 4 years, and it was my first digital camera. I have several M42 screw mount lenses from my film days, and have adapted them, with some success (when I remember I have a manual lens mounted) and some failures (when I forget). I have 6 automatics too, so all I really need now is a new and better body. I have a feeling I will have my 77D in a couple of weeks, when I have a birthday. I see you are in London. Never been there, but I was in Europe twice, and it was there that I learned the value of a wide angle lens. I don't mind a crop camera, but it does require you to make adjustments at the lower ranges. I have Canon 10-18, 18-55, 55-250 and 50mm 1.8 as well as a Sigma 28-80 for light walk around and a Tamron 28-300 for heavy walk around. You seem to be one of the few here I don't feel obliged to trade insults with. Let me know more about you and your gear.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Gray ... I don't mind trading insults with you, but sharing knowledge - is a much better route, in my estimation!!!! ...

The beginner cameras I itemized - were the Canon EOS Rebel T7 (NOT T7i) D3400/D3500 (now) Pentax K-70 and the Canon EOS Rebel SL2 ...

The T7i and the EOS 77D are - essentially the same camera ... but the latter includes the top-deck LCD of the EOS XX series. No idea why the price is different for the two models ... when Canon introduced the two of them together (as they had the T6i / T6s before them) the EOS 77D was seen to be the EOS T6s upgrade ... but, after Canon saw the sales not to be as good for the 77D as they were for the T7i - they reduced the price on the 77D ...

By contrast - the T7 (no "i") is the upgrade to the T6, which was the upgrade to the T5, which was the upgrade to the T3 (which you and I have) ... shown in my icon, and yes - the T3 was also MY first DSLR ... and am still wowed by it, whenever I shoot with it ... an excellent camera!!!!

Unfortunately - the Rebel beginner series, lacks the Self-Clean sensor, and has no flip back LCD, either, nor do they incorporate a Touch-Screen.
The SL series DOES incorporate a touch-screen, and the latest SL2, also has the flip back LCD of the "i" series, too. But, it's still a beginner camera.
Because of these features - I included it in these "beginner camera" choices. Truth be known, the SL2 is more aimed at those needing a smaller, and less obtrusive camera, to use on the street - so, it has many of the niceties of the "i" series. But, because of the slightly lower price, I included it, here.

As shown in my signature, my Canons include not only the T3, but also the T4i (which was the very first DSLR with a Touch-Screen) and the EOS 60D - bought at just about the same time. EOS glass I've purchased since, include the EF-S 15-85 IS USM, the EF-S 18-55 IS II (came with the T4i) and various 3rd party items, including the Tamron SP 60 f2 Macro (a fave) the Tamron SP 70-300 VC USD (another fave) the Tamron 18-270 VC PZD (kept on the T3) and the Sigma EX 10-20 USM, and Sigma 70-300 Macro, and the Tokina 16.5-135 (kept on the 60D) ... recently sold - Tokina 80-400, Tamron SP 10-24.

Nikon glass include ... you don't really want me to go there, do you? ... I think you're more interested in Canon ... same with Sony, and Pentax ....

Yes, I lived in London - both as a child with my parents for a while (in Middlesex) and again when I returned there as a youth in the mid-60s (Earl's Court - pretty much - downtown London) - for just short of five years, but I returned to the US in 1972, and have been here (mostly, in CT) - ever since ....

tonal Loc: Greece

Hi Chris,

If your special one never showed any interest in photography then consider buying her something else instead of a camera.

But if she has some interest in that hobby then go for it.

You mentioned that you have lots of Canon glass and some Pentax as well.
As a novice user I found out really early the limitations of low light performance (narrow aperture) and lack of IS in my kit lens and this was the only one I had for almost a year
until I decided to buy some new lenses.
The articulated screen and IBIS of Pentax sound like a really cool feature and would help to take sharp images from start.
On the other hand Canon and Nikon do not have IBIS but Canon has a fully articulated touchscreen.

The built in guide is not a must have imho since you can spend time with her to show and explain the basics.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

I suspect she only has interest in it, Tonal ... as I do ... so, it may be a short-lived fascination, but, it also may grow on her, as it did, me ....

On my most favorite Canon - the EOS Rebel T4i (the first, with an articulated touch-screen) I DO use an IS lens - the EF-S 15-85 IS USM - normally.

Not too sure having an articulated Touch-Screen helps much attaining sharpness, but, it is - no doubt, convenient ...

All Canon "i" series Rebels, since the T4i - now have the articulated Touch-Screen, as does the EOS XX series (since the 70D) and the SL2, and 6D Mk. II.

Unfortunately, though - the beginner Rebels (non-i) do not have this highly desirable feature, and they also lack the all-important Self-Cleaning Sensor.

IBIS (In-Body Image Stabilization) - found only in Pentax and Sony DSLRs - is also a highly desirable feature, and DOES contribute to attaining sharpness.

ILIS (In-Lens Image Stabilization) used on SOME Nikon and Canon glass - also contributes much to attaining sharpness, when used appropriately.

However, ILIS - depends all too much on good and stable operation - either by use of a tripod, or by rigid holding of the camera, at time of exposure.

IBIS, on the other hand - does NOT leave so much to chance. You can shoot, whilst moving, with an IBIS camera, and the image will STILL be stabilized.

BTW - Nikon has also employed articulated screens on their D5000 series, and - since the D5500 - that is also Touch. A bit behind Canon, but ...

graybeard

No, don't bring up Nikon or my abrasive side will pop up. Never owned one, told they were great back in the film days, but it is really their owners that irritate me. Kind of like guys who drive a Cadillac. You know, I drive a Caddy and you don't. Pentax was my film camera (M42 mount) and I liked it. Also had Praktica and Mamiya/Sekor, which was my first SLR back in the 60s. My wife gifted me a T3 several birthdays ago, and from minute one I knew I could never go back to film. The T3 will become my new backup, replacing a 350D which I will sell or give away.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

I've noticed that on this very site, Gray ... seems to be a lot of Nikon snobs, here. Personally, I think Canon makes a better product - bodies, anyway - but on the glass side, they're pretty even. However, the L series - is another area, entirely. Come to think of it ... L users here , are also snobs - kinda. And just because I didn't want to be seen as biased, in any way, at all - I set about getting 3 DSLRs by each maker - one beginner, one intermediate, one semi-pro. Guess I succeeded at the beginning, with my Canons, and at the end, with my Sony SLTs - but, in the middle - it kinda fell apart - kinda like some recent movies, I've seen. Anyway, I wound up with two LESS Pentax models, and two MORE Nikon models, but a dozen lenses for Canon, as opposed to a half dozen lenses for Nikon ... so, it kinda evens out!!! ... My first 35mm SLR was also a Mamiya/Sekor, but I took it back after a month - picked up a Nikkormat instead - back in 1970 or thereabouts! Then, later - got a Mamiya RB67, and later, still - a Mamiya Universal ... to make up for that trade - kinda!!!! ....

Great that your wife should get you that T3 for your birthday. It was, in fact - MY birthday, for which I bought my T3 - my birthday treat - my first DSLR - about a month AFTER my birthday, in 2011 ... replacing my Fujifilm Finepix HS-10 - I'd purchased for my birthday, exactly one year before .... !!!!

graybeard

Say bro, I noticed you have a lot of enemies here, judging by some the the snarky comments they made on the "did Nikon lay an egg" topic. Ironic (or perhaps not ironic after all) that some of these are the same cheap shot artists I have noticed who can't reply to your topic without reminding you how much smarter than you they are. Almost like trained seals, I mention the bozos here and up they pop. You know who they are. They know who they are.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Gray ... I've been a member here, just about a year, now ... and for a while (about six months) - I was putting up two topics a day (sometimes, more) - which made a lot of folks here, pretty angry at me - I guess - because they weren't capable of thinking so fast ... so - who's smarter than who? ...

As far as the Topic Title you mentioned, I haven't looked at it ... in fact, I haven't looked at very many topics, which aren't my own - as, invariably - when I choose to respond (which isn't very often - unless it's right up my alley) ... I get the ACCESS DENIED post from the powers-that-be ... so, I give up - and in case of the Classier Bag post - since I'd already done all the work for it - I paralleled it with my own dual posts (which soon became commuted into one!)

You think I care? ... I'm far more appreciative of those who wish to communicate WITH me, than those who talk ABOUT me ... shouldn't I be?

graybeard

I have been a member of several forums, photography, history, religion etc. and they all have one thing in common. These smarter-than-thou types who are so quick to insult. I for the most part avoid them, but occasionally have to throw some crap in their face, just to show I can get as down and dirty as they do.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Or, who make a deliberate misinterpretation - just so they can hurl spears at you ... seems to be quite a few of them, around ...

And, then, there are those, Gray - spurred on by jealousy ... but, when it comes right down to it - you find they have more than you have, anyway ...

For the most part, I just tend to ignore those who seem to be spoiling for a fight, and go on to the next ... after all, the site's about sharing - sharing thoughts, knowledge, pricing, etc. ...

I suspect - when one chooses to get down to their level - so-to-speak ... you're beaten, almost, before you start ....

You can take it all as a learning experience, or go in another direction, entirely ... for the most part, I tend to shrug it all off ...