Full frame versus cropped camera (Page 6): Did you read carefully? I said "The larger sensor would also give shallower depth of field when taking images with the same angle of view and...

BebuLamar

epd1947 wrote:

Larger sensor size does not determine depth of fie... (show quote)

Did you read carefully? I said "The larger sensor would also give shallower depth of field when taking images with the same angle of view and same aperture."
So I said when taking images with the same angle of view that means you must use a longer lens for the larger format.
Also I said the same aperture.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

chrisg-optical wrote:

A lens is a lens is a lens - the sensor size does ... (show quote)

Show me a dof chart that supports your opinion. There's more to this than just what the lens does. Image magnification - a factor totally absent in your representation - is important. Smaller sensors have smaller circles of confusion and for a given print size, the smaller sensor will expose image softness from shallower depth of field.

But I would like you to show, on any dof calculator, where the opposite, as you contend, is correct.

Similar to your example of a camera with interchangeable backs, TriX's screen captures above of DoF calculations for crop vs full frame, where the only thing changed is the sensor size, shows clearly that you may not have completely thought this through. But maybe we are both wrong. I am always open to learning something new. . .

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

chrisg-optical wrote:

A lens is a lens is a lens - the sensor size does ... (show quote)

In the event you missed or don’t believe the examples I posted previously from a well-known DOF calculator, then you might find these 2 articles to be useful for explaining how depth of field is calculated and is affected by the circle of confusion (CoC) which is determined by format size:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

TriX wrote:

In the event you missed or don’t believe the examples I posted previously from a well-known DOF calculator, then you might find these 2 articles to be useful for explaining how depth of field is calculated and is affected by the circle of confusion (CoC) which is determined by format size:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion

Great articles!!!!

HarryBinNC Loc: Blue Ridge Mtns, No.Carolina, USA

AlfredU wrote:

I agree with everything you said, except saying you get more reach with a 1.6x cropped sensor. If you crop your image from the same lens and crop the image 1.6 X in post you have the same reach with the full frame sensor.

Unfortunately, when you cropped your FF to get that "reach" you have also magnified the noise and other image issues, shrunk the depth of field, and reduced the pixels in the image by 60%! So where is the FF advantage now?

Dossile

I really enjoyed shooting my Nikon 300S DX. I moved to full frame because I wanted the wider view on landscapes and to use higher quality low light (faster) lenses when doing so for less noise, higher dynamic range. That can be done several ways with the different formats, but my wife is always pushing forward when traveling and if I want a chance to take good pictures and yet hang with her I can’t take multiple images and splice in PS. I get one shot or two. I have some great 4/3 shots, some great Dx shots. The cameras are all amazing tools now in any format: 4/3, DX, APS/C, FF mirrorless and FF DSLR. I smile at people’s passion when defending a format because they are all extremely good. Most of the time, and for most of us, it is the magician not the wand. I upgraded my body to an 850, am slowly upgrading my lenses, but my next purchase is a high quality tripod to take advantages of the FF benefits.

ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca

Have an additional & final thought on the subject of Crop vs Full Frame and it goes back to a simpler analog time when formats were point & shoot (generally less then 35mm) 35mm; 70mm and view cameras. I love what can be accomplished -- in of course the right experience hands -- with the 70mm & larger formats -- did have a twin lens reflex once -- But eventually eliminated them as future purchases simply because I felt they & their lenses & associated "stuff" were too expensive & heavy. Didn't buy into the point & shoot simply because you could not change lenses. I built my 35mm lens collection primary based on what I got out of reading/rereading the Kodak Lens Book and then applied those purchased lenses to a series of Canon Film & Digital Cameras. For the most part I'm still using the same lenses. The above reasoning is why I did not go with what I then considered & of course continue to consider the far superior technology - Digital - Until 2010 - Those old sharp as a tack lenses are the only reason why I do not own a Crop Frame Camera.

epd1947

BebuLamar wrote:

Did you read carefully? I said "The larger sensor would also give shallower depth of field when taking images with the same angle of view and same aperture."
So I said when taking images with the same angle of view that means you must use a longer lens for the larger format.
Also I said the same aperture.

You are correct - i missed your qualification on same angle of view - sorry

gwilliams6

An interesting alternative to the fullframe mirrorless wars brewing. An excellent mirrorless APS-C new release from Fuji. And at a $1500 price it might be worth considering for many. Cheers

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/fujifilms-x-t3-is-a-mirrorless-all-rounder-with-boosted-video-powers-embargoed-3552655

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/6/17823930/fujifilm-xt3-camera-announced-features-pricing-release-date

gwilliams6

An interesting alternative to the fullframe mirrorless wars brewing. An excellent mirrorless APS-C new release from Fuji. And at a $1500 price it might be worth considering for many. Cheers

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/fujifilms-x-t3-is-a-mirrorless-all-rounder-with-boosted-video-powers-embargoed-3552655

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/6/17823930/fujifilm-xt3-camera-announced-features-pricing-release-date

davidb1879

Gene51: Which bridge camera with a 1 inch sensor do you use? By the way, thanks for all the good advice. Davidb1789.

davidb1879

Gene51: Which bridge camera with a 1 inch sensor do you use. By the way, thanks for all your good advice over the years. Davidb1789.

Orphoto Loc: Oregon

David. If you want to contact gene(who has not been active lately), send him a pm.

Otherwise, let a 5 YEAR OLD THREAD rest in peace.

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Starving here in UHH. Puny little brains.

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MDI Mainer

This is an old thread, but in 2023, the attraction of the "full-frame" format is largely snob appeal and/or a photographic form of size envy. The claimed disadvantages of today's APS-C and MFT sensors can now readily be addressed with state-of-the-art post-processing software.

History teaches that the "full-frame" or 35 mm format supplanted older, larger formats, such that these formats were reduced to a retarditare niche market. The real question is whether the advance in even smaller phone camera sensors and future software developments will again replicate this result.