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The Rule of Odds - what does it mean, and when should you use it? Share your photos!
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Aug 25, 2018 08:20:51   #
minniev
 
repleo wrote:
Although the Golden Spiral / Fibonacci Curve occurs quite often in nature, I find that it can be very effective with small groups of people. The Golden Spiral can be quite difficult to visualize without a 'guide' or a lot of practice when you are shooting, but there is an crop overlay for it in PS. It is worth playing with it. You have to cycle through all of the orientations and flips, but if you find one that is close it can make a huge difference to the composition of your crop. It can make for a very natural but 'together' grouping that draws the eye into a principal subject -eg baby/Mom/Granny.

I wish I could figure out how to print a sample with the overlay superimposed to demonstrate.
Although the Golden Spiral / Fibonacci Curve occur... (show quote)


A couple of resources, one for online use and one for use within Photoshop.

http://parksphotos.com/goldenoverlays/
http://photoinf.com/Golden_Mean/photo-adjuster.html

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Aug 25, 2018 08:35:18   #
Linda From Maine (a regular here)
 
camerapapi wrote:
Basic rules of composition is what brings order to our images. I will briefly discuss, with these images, those rules applying the principles outlined by Linda.

The first image is a pretty good example of balance. I made this image aboard a cruise after asking these girls to pose for me. Balance is so obvious that I do not believe any explanation is needed.

The second image shows the triangle image described by Linda during her explanations of composition. The sun to the left and both boats on the right make a perfect triangle, somewhat limited to the eye due to the two dimensional aspect of still images.

The last image is a pretty good representation of photographing several objects in the same frame. There is order in the sails to the right but the order is broken by the presence of other objects within the frame erratically located like the palms, the flag and the trailer in the background. The eye is drawn to the sails with their bright colors but the brightness on the trailer attracts the eye since we tend to look first at the brightest part of the subject when viewing a photograph.
Basic rules of composition is what brings order to... (show quote)
Thanks so much for your time and detailed discussion of these photos, William! Your comments are always concise and easy to follow.

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Aug 25, 2018 08:39:33   #
Linda From Maine (a regular here)
 
repleo wrote:
Some examples of 'couples' shots. Although 'couples' shots may lack the pure visual impact of 'Three's' they create so much opportunity for creating dynamic within the frame. The space between the pair can tell a story and become the subject in its own right.

In #1 you can tell the guy on the right wants to listen to the music but also wants to keep a safe distance from the crazy dancing bear and to be far enough away that he doesn't feel obligated to make a 'donation'.

In #2 the balloon guy is obviously sneering something like 'You want a WHAT, kid?' Reminds me of Wall St Girl facing down the raging bull.

#3 the relationship appears close and intense, but not intimate.

#4 the relationship is probably intimate despite the apparent indifference. They could be an old married couple!

Great topic Linda. However, I feel it unfortunate that we refer to these gems of wisdom as 'Rules'. As soon as the word 'Rules' is mentioned, somebody wants to break them. I see them more as recipes. You won't go wrong following the recipe, but you can always fiddle a bit to make it your own.
Some examples of 'couples' shots. Although 'coupl... (show quote)
Thank you, Phil! I see #1 as a Rule of Odds (I mean suggestion, not rule, lol) also. With more visual weight on the left, my eye keeps going from one side to the other + the message of separation of the "couple" is stronger IMO.

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Aug 25, 2018 08:51:47   #
Linda From Maine (a regular here)
 
minniev wrote:
Linda alerted me to this thread since she knows I like discussions of this type. Interesting photos and conversation thus far, as well as good links to explore. I am not sure I am even remotely qualified to join in since I cannot recall any time in my photo journey that I have counted anything I was shooting. Maybe I count on some subconscious level but I really think I don't. Sometimes a more skilled photographer will point out about an image of mine that its strength is due to having three or some other number of something, but I can take no credit for doing it on purpose. I simply shot what I shot and it happened to be that number of things (birds, tomatoes, rock formations, whatever). My own thinking about this concept is pretty undeveloped, so you can see why I feel unqualified to join.

Nevertheless, I picked a set of images that are all the same scene except for the numbers of posts and there isn't much else there to contribute. I do not pretend these are great images (they are basically strays, SOOC, chosen for the discussion rather than artistic value). I'm not making any kind of claim about anything they may illustrate, but welcome any comments about whether any are more or less interesting because of numbers alone.
Linda alerted me to this thread since she knows I ... (show quote)
Thanks for coming, Minnie! That's a lot of disclaimers in your opening burkphoto's comments, concluding with "It just happens," (and first mentioned by DWU2 and kenievans) relate. Those who don't have "the eye" perhaps work more methodically to eventually reach the same place?

Re your photo #4 - I see it as Odds: 1 + 3. The centered pole, visually strengthened by the bird, helps group the evenly spaced line of poles on the right side. After looking at that, I find the outlier single (spaced farther away) left-side pole. Cool!

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Aug 25, 2018 08:55:01   #
Linda From Maine (a regular here)
 
repleo wrote:
Although the Golden Spiral / Fibonacci Curve occurs quite often in nature, I find that it can be very effective with small groups of people. The Golden Spiral can be quite difficult to visualize without a 'guide' or a lot of practice when you are shooting, but there is an crop overlay for it in PS. It is worth playing with it. You have to cycle through all of the orientations and flips, but if you find one that is close it can make a huge difference to the composition of your crop. It can make for a very natural but 'together' grouping that draws the eye into a principal subject -eg baby/Mom/Granny.

I wish I could figure out how to print a sample with the overlay superimposed to demonstrate.
Although the Golden Spiral / Fibonacci Curve occur... (show quote)
Thank you for mentioning! You could do just a screenprint of the PS aid on a photo on your computer screen. Someone else has show this in FYC, perhaps Uuglypher? I'll have to check.

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Aug 25, 2018 08:56:21   #
minniev
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Thanks for coming, Minnie! That's a lot of disclaimers in your opening burkphoto's comments, concluding with "It just happens," (and first mentioned by DWU2 and kenievans) relate. Those who don't have "the eye" perhaps work more methodically to eventually reach the same place?

Re your photo #4 - I see it as Odds: 1 + 3. The centered pole, visually strengthened by the bird, helps separate the evenly spaced line of poles on the right side. After looking at that, I find the outlier single (spaced farther away) left-side pole. Cool!
Thanks for coming, Minnie! That's a lot of disclai... (show quote)


My own favorite is the 4. However, the 3 is the only one I've edited further and made into a print. It was a PITA to print, and I remember some FYC folks and some other online friends having to pitch in and help me solve the problems I was having with it.

I don't think I've got any particular eye, but whatever it does, I'm probably stuck with it. I'm not sure I'll ever be any better at counting things in the field than my cat is.

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Aug 25, 2018 09:02:59   #
jaymatt (a regular here)
 
To me, the second one is just more pleasing. Is it because of the odds rule? I have no idea.

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Aug 25, 2018 09:24:19   #
AzPicLady (a regular here)
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
An obvious exception would be "couples" shots: weddings, engagements, two kids, or other "relationships" - such as these two buddies of a different persuasion

I just want to remind new photographers to be open in your thinking. Once you are comfortable with all the rules of composition, you will be able to see the importance of understanding the exceptions.


One thing I think we should remember is that included in the number are all elements of the image. In the case of these horses, there are two horses and a fence. That makes 3. Sometimes it's a background element that adds that odd number. Or maybe something unrelated. If you took the four grain bins and put a tractor in front, would that help?

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Aug 25, 2018 11:03:34   #
Linda From Maine (a regular here)
 
AzPicLady wrote:
One thing I think we should remember is that included in the number are all elements of the image. In the case of these horses, there are two horses and a fence. That makes 3. Sometimes it's a background element that adds that odd number. Or maybe something unrelated. If you took the four grain bins and put a tractor in front, would that help?
Thank you, Kathy. burkphoto mentioned the fence also. I had not considered the importance of the fence, so I appreciate your stressing the "all elements" viewpoint (I mentioned similar to repleo with his subway shot, though, so maybe I learned quickly, lol. More likely it was because I was seeing his for the first time.). I can also envision your suggestion for a tractor with the four bins. Easier for me to picture as I have an old photo somewhere that includes one there Please feel free to post some photos and discuss them!

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Aug 25, 2018 11:22:47   #
RichardTaylor (a regular here)
 
burkphoto wrote:
The second photo has a triangular shape in it. That's what keeps the eye moving through it. Can you see it?


I can, now that you mentioned it.

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Aug 25, 2018 11:48:26   #
mallen1330
 
repleo wrote:
Although the Golden Spiral / Fibonacci Curve occurs quite often in nature, I find that it can be very effective with small groups of people. The Golden Spiral can be quite difficult to visualize without a 'guide' or a lot of practice when you are shooting, but there is an crop overlay for it in PS. It is worth playing with it. You have to cycle through all of the orientations and flips, but if you find one that is close it can make a huge difference to the composition of your crop. It can make for a very natural but 'together' grouping that draws the eye into a principal subject -eg baby/Mom/Granny.

I wish I could figure out how to print a sample with the overlay superimposed to demonstrate.
Although the Golden Spiral / Fibonacci Curve occur... (show quote)
The Golden Spiral / Fibonacci Curve is available as an optional crop overlay when using the Magic Lantern firmware add-on for Canon cameras -- as is a rule of thirds grid.


(Download)

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Aug 25, 2018 14:26:40   #
artBob (a regular here)
 
AzPicLady wrote:
One thing I think we should remember is that included in the number are all elements of the image. In the case of these horses, there are two horses and a fence. That makes 3. Sometimes it's a background element that adds that odd number. Or maybe something unrelated. If you took the four grain bins and put a tractor in front, would that help?


One unrelated thing that help is that the smaller horse is higher in the frame. Height adds visual weight.

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Aug 25, 2018 14:32:17   #
artBob (a regular here)
 
artBob wrote:
One unrelated thing that help is that the smaller horse is higher in the frame. Height adds visual weight.


Thinking about balance and visual weight, I made some graphics of the considerations involved. The photo also included has composition balance, triangularity, and the aspects of visual weight that complete those considerations.


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

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Aug 25, 2018 16:51:50   #
blackest (a regular here)
 
Interesting topic,

Reminded me of something I was told/ taught when planting out a garden was to plant in groups of threes, sometimes fives but mostly threes.
Maybe the gardener got there first :)

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Aug 25, 2018 17:00:39   #
Linda From Maine (a regular here)
 
blackest wrote:
Interesting topic, Reminded me of something I was told/ taught when planting out a garden was to plant in groups of threes, sometimes fives but mostly threes. Maybe the gardener got there first :)
I guess that pleasing visual harmony extends to the garden too! Thanks for your visit

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