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Blurry toddlers in action
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Aug 13, 2018 13:57:25   #
pjarbit Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
What lens are you using? You don't want a variable aperture lens. My recommendation is to use a lens that can handle F2.8. This should let you not go crazy with the ISO and get grainy shots. If this isn't working, I would agree with the above posts and use TTL flash with Gary Fong diffuser.

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Aug 13, 2018 13:59:21   #
autofocus Loc: North Central Connecticut
 
Gene51 wrote:
High speed sync only allows you to use a faster shutter speed. It does nothing about the quality of the light. And given the fact that AutoFP (Nikon's name for HSS) consumes so much power and reduces working distances, adding the Fong just further reduces the power output of the flash, resulting in higher ISO and larger apertures. Also, the quality/directionality of the light when using a Fong is difficult at best.



If you like the Fong lighting, the interesting thing is that you don't need to spend $$$ to get the same results as a Fong - you just re-purpose the container that your Chinese soup came in

https://improvephotography.com/2545/gary-fong-lightsphere-collapsible-review/

Again, the better solution is often either using off camera truly diffused (medium/large softbox, umbrella, Brolly, etc) or, has been suggested, using a speedlight with a head that can be tilted and swiveled so you can bounce off the wall and ceiling behind you or two the side. Regardless of your approach, size matters. You will get softer, more flattering results when you can make the apparent size of the light source larger - something that the Fong and other devices fail to deliver.

A cheap (used on eBay) Sunpak 383 has a high GN (120 with ISO 100), and has a duration of 1/700 at full power to 1/20,000 at 1/16 power. I found a nice balance between power output, flash duration and recycle time at 1/4 to 1/8 power, in smaller "residential" settings when using it as bounce. I will often use several speedlights for more even illumination, bounced off walls and ceilings.

I like the flashdisk much better than the Fong:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHBZ85E/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00KHBZ85E&linkCode=as2&tag=fstoppers-20&linkId=GEU3RN5WPHLWZNJ5

This is a nice comparison of popular light modifiers for speedlights - along with results so you can draw your own conclusions.

https://neilvn.com/tangents/review-best-light-modifiers-for-on-camera-flash/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L08G2dfIwFY

For what it's worth - Neil van Niekerk is a highly accomplished and successful wedding, portrait and event photographer with an excellent blog and tons of information on how to best use portable flash. His blog is worth a look.
High speed sync only allows you to use a faster sh... (show quote)


hmm, I was responding to the comment above mine, don't know why it linked to your comment??

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Aug 13, 2018 14:15:13   #
thrash50
 
Read up on burst mode settings, you should be able to adjust the range of shutter speed, iso, aperture settings, while capturing multiple images, then you can check the image data, to see what settings capture the best images. Artificial light will even out lighting in the space, so your camera will not need to adjust AF as much. A tripod, and wider angle might help. Take some posed portraits, and adjust your settings to compensate for movement, using your best portraits as a base starting point. Finally Sync your cell phone to activate shutter, and get yourself in the mix.
Thrash 50
Good luck, my kids, grand kids, and animals, are some of my most enjoyable sessions.

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Aug 13, 2018 14:37:40   #
Daryl New Loc: Wellington,New Zealand
 
Yep A1 servo or burst is what we use to shoot 3/4 yr olds playing soccer.check that you're not having camera shake as well.

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Aug 13, 2018 16:45:40   #
Kozan Loc: Trenton Tennessee
 
pipehitter wrote:
Hi.
I'm shooting blurry indoor and low-light outdoor pics of our toddlers playing.

I shoot in manual mode, have tried to tweak the iso, and iso sensitivity, aperture, shutter speed, etc. And only about 10pct of my photos/action shots are not blurry.

I shoot with a Nikon d850 and no flash.

Any camera setting suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Frustrated Dad


Set shutter speed to 1/500 s or faster. Set ISO to Auto ISO. Use GROUP focus area, and aperture to maximum.

Reply
Aug 13, 2018 18:12:26   #
Rick from NY Loc: Sarasota FL
 
Dad - If I understand your issue, you are trying to shoot moving children in low light and getting motion blur. If that is the case, then I respectfully disagree with the recommendations to use flash or shoot at 2.8. Flash works quite well when shooting portrait style shots of the kids- that is they are NOT in motion. The problem with flash (even with high speed sync, assuming that you can master that) is that the recycle time of your speedlight will not keep up with the movement of the kids. And shooting at 2.8 with more than one child (or often even with only one child, depending on your focal length and distance from the subject(s) to the background) is that your depth of field (lack thereof) will probably not give you the desired result.

The answer to your problem is really pretty simple and here are some tips -

1. Examine your focus mode and shutter settings. You should be shooting fast multiple frames per second and the focus mode needs to be in continuous focus. Shooting moving subjects in burst mode will increase the odds of getting focused shots.

2. As others have mentioned, unless your light source remains constant throughout the area in which the kid is moving, get out of manual mode. You have the latest, greatest model of camera for metering and yet you override its capability to perform the magic by shooting manual mode? You are destined to fail if the lighting is constantly changing outdoors or the kid moves from the indoor spot you metered. How fast can you change the shutter speed, ISO and or aperture? When I broke in shooting sports before AF and evaluative metering and AF, we had to shoot manual mode and we were restricted to focusing on particular spot on the field and hope that a cloud didn't roll over we hit the shutter. Today, with the "brains" of a D850, the only time I would even consider trying to out think my 850 is when i know the light will remain constant AND the subject is in some tricky light. 98 times out 100, the 850 will get the right setting. I have been doing this type of photography for long time and I couldn't come close to that keeper rate using manual unless the lighting was constant.

3. Assuming that you change your settings to evaluative metering (and no, I would not use spot or center weighted metering unless the specific scene has some very tricky lighting.) - Again, more often than not, the 850 in matrix mode will do a better job than you will. Yeah - it IS that smart in most exposure situations. Just to be clear - I do switch to manual mode and/or use non-evaluative metering choices when there is a reason to do so, but it takes experience (often a lot) to get better results when overriding the Nikon algorithms.

So if you are willing to revert to auto exposure, set the camera to shoot fast bursts in CF mode, and assuming that your OOF shots were caused by camera shake, the rest is really quite simple. There is only one way to overcome camera shake blur and that is by raising the shutter speed to a sufficient rate where the action is frozen. Your 850 controls noise at high iSO quite well. I have no qualms shooting at ISO 6400 all day long and have gone higher if necessary. If the choice is sharp image with grain or a beautifully smooth (grainless), but out of focus image, the answer is pretty self evident. Especially with a camera that does very well at hi ISO and software that can tame objectionable grain. In the days of film, photogs have accepted grain when the lighting did not permit slow film. 1600 ASA film (often pushed even higher) was quite common for action shooting. 400ASA TriX (when 25 - 100 ASA film was the norm) was the photojournalist's go to film; in fact, the visible grain of TriX was actually embraced. Software today offers the look of TriX even when shooting at lo ISO.

Set your 850 on auto ISO with a default SS of not less than 1/1000 second and keep an eye on the aperture depending of how much depth of field is necessary (more than 1 kid - I would stay at 5.6 or smaller). Place the focus point over an eye and fire away. I think you will pleased with the results. Oh - and if you are not conversant with the various AF and FPS options at your fingertips using the 850 (or even if you think you are) I strongly recommend reading what Steve Perry, an active and highly regarded member here, has available on line. He has a lot of free Youtube videos on Nikon and his Secrets to Nikon AF is well worth the money. I do know how to shoot action, but I bought the inexpensive reference video to learn about all of the goodies that Nikon packed into it newest bodies. I needed someone to explain in English what the Nikon AF system CAN do and how to use the numerous options.

Highly recommended, especially on the off chance that your blurry images are caused by improper AF technique rather than camera shake. Good luck shooting the kids.

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Aug 13, 2018 20:37:57   #
10MPlayer Loc: California
 
Use the built-in flash or get a speed light.

Reply
 
 
Aug 13, 2018 20:50:07   #
Rick from NY Loc: Sarasota FL
 
10MPlayer wrote:
Use the built-in flash or get a speed light.


How will that help for moving subjects? Have you read the replies of others who responded to the oft repeated suggestions above to use flash? See the replies from member Autofocus. I agree with him that if you are well versed in shooting with flash, his suggestions make sense. If the fellow is asking the question in the first place, do you think he is going to be proficient with either HSS or "dragging the shutter"? Simply mounting a flash and firing away is not going to help him get a sharp image of a moving subject.

It is way easier to just simply stop shooting in manual mode and raise the shutter speed high enough to do the trick while bumping the ISO as necessary.

Reply
Aug 13, 2018 21:29:36   #
autofocus Loc: North Central Connecticut
 
Rick from NY wrote:
Dad - If I understand your issue, you are trying to shoot moving children in low light and getting motion blur. If that is the case, then I respectfully disagree with the recommendations to use flash or shoot at 2.8. Flash works quite well when shooting portrait style shots of the kids- that is they are NOT in motion. The problem with flash (even with high speed sync, assuming that you can master that) is that the recycle time of your speedlight will not keep up with the movement of the kids. And shooting at 2.8 with more than one child (or often even with only one child, depending on your focal length and distance from the subject(s) to the background) is that your depth of field (lack thereof) will probably not give you the desired result.

The answer to your problem is really pretty simple and here are some tips -

1. Examine your focus mode and shutter settings. You should be shooting fast multiple frames per second and the focus mode needs to be in continuous focus. Shooting moving subjects in burst mode will increase the odds of getting focused shots.

2. As others have mentioned, unless your light source remains constant throughout the area in which the kid is moving, get out of manual mode. You have the latest, greatest model of camera for metering and yet you override its capability to perform the magic by shooting manual mode? You are destined to fail if the lighting is constantly changing outdoors or the kid moves from the indoor spot you metered. How fast can you change the shutter speed, ISO and or aperture? When I broke in shooting sports before AF and evaluative metering and AF, we had to shoot manual mode and we were restricted to focusing on particular spot on the field and hope that a cloud didn't roll over we hit the shutter. Today, with the "brains" of a D850, the only time I would even consider trying to out think my 850 is when i know the light will remain constant AND the subject is in some tricky light. 98 times out 100, the 850 will get the right setting. I have been doing this type of photography for long time and I couldn't come close to that keeper rate using manual unless the lighting was constant.

3. Assuming that you change your settings to evaluative metering (and no, I would not use spot or center weighted metering unless the specific scene has some very tricky lighting.) - Again, more often than not, the 850 in matrix mode will do a better job than you will. Yeah - it IS that smart in most exposure situations. Just to be clear - I do switch to manual mode and/or use non-evaluative metering choices when there is a reason to do so, but it takes experience (often a lot) to get better results when overriding the Nikon algorithms.

So if you are willing to revert to auto exposure, set the camera to shoot fast bursts in CF mode, and assuming that your OOF shots were caused by camera shake, the rest is really quite simple. There is only one way to overcome camera shake blur and that is by raising the shutter speed to a sufficient rate where the action is frozen. Your 850 controls noise at high iSO quite well. I have no qualms shooting at ISO 6400 all day long and have gone higher if necessary. If the choice is sharp image with grain or a beautifully smooth (grainless), but out of focus image, the answer is pretty self evident. Especially with a camera that does very well at hi ISO and software that can tame objectionable grain. In the days of film, photogs have accepted grain when the lighting did not permit slow film. 1600 ASA film (often pushed even higher) was quite common for action shooting. 400ASA TriX (when 25 - 100 ASA film was the norm) was the photojournalist's go to film; in fact, the visible grain of TriX was actually embraced. Software today offers the look of TriX even when shooting at lo ISO.

Set your 850 on auto ISO with a default SS of not less than 1/1000 second and keep an eye on the aperture depending of how much depth of field is necessary (more than 1 kid - I would stay at 5.6 or smaller). Place the focus point over an eye and fire away. I think you will pleased with the results. Oh - and if you are not conversant with the various AF and FPS options at your fingertips using the 850 (or even if you think you are) I strongly recommend reading what Steve Perry, an active and highly regarded member here, has available on line. He has a lot of free Youtube videos on Nikon and his Secrets to Nikon AF is well worth the money. I do know how to shoot action, but I bought the inexpensive reference video to learn about all of the goodies that Nikon packed into it newest bodies. I needed someone to explain in English what the Nikon AF system CAN do and how to use the numerous options.

Highly recommended, especially on the off chance that your blurry images are caused by improper AF technique rather than camera shake. Good luck shooting the kids.
Dad - If I understand your issue, you are trying t... (show quote)

Rick, probably the best advice here so far, no need for the op to go any further...geez, who shoots fast motion better than a pro sports photographer!

Reply
Aug 13, 2018 21:37:14   #
autofocus Loc: North Central Connecticut
 
Rick from NY wrote:
How will that help for moving subjects? Have you read the replies of others who responded to the oft repeated suggestions above to use flash? See the replies from member Autofocus. I agree with him that if you are well versed in shooting with flash, his suggestions make sense. If the fellow is asking the question in the first place, do you think he is going to be proficient with either HSS or "dragging the shutter"? Simply mounting a flash and firing away is not going to help him get a sharp image of a moving subject.

It is way easier to just simply stop shooting in manual mode and raise the shutter speed high enough to do the trick while bumping the ISO as necessary.
How will that help for moving subjects? Have you... (show quote)


years ago, I also was of the opinion that flash always froze action, but someone set me straight. Hopefully others can learn from what knowledge we've learned and are now willing to share

Reply
Aug 14, 2018 05:01:49   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
autofocus wrote:
hmm, I was responding to the comment above mine, don't know why it linked to your comment??


Neither do I.

Reply
 
 
Aug 14, 2018 05:19:53   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
pipehitter wrote:
Hi.
I'm shooting blurry indoor and low-light outdoor pics of our toddlers playing.

I shoot in manual mode, have tried to tweak the iso, and iso sensitivity, aperture, shutter speed, etc. And only about 10pct of my photos/action shots are not blurry.

I shoot with a Nikon d850 and no flash.

Any camera setting suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Frustrated Dad


Can you post a couple of images with the Store Original box checked?

It seems that without seeing what the problem is, responders are all over the map on how to best handle this. One or more factors can contribute to blurry images. The two main ones would be active subjects or camera motion from using too slow a shutter speed - the most likely cause, or focus errors.

If it is blur and not focus, it is possible that using a very high ISO may work. But using a bounced flash in a room with a more manageable ISO of around 200 or 400 with an aperture of F5.6 or so will provide far better image quality, and a high shutter speed like 1/250 will minimize the amount of ambient light. But the better reason is to ensure control over the quality of the light - rather than to roll the dice with ambient.

In either case, you can always try the ambient light/high ISO method since it will cost you nothing. But in situations like you describe, a speed light will probably produce nicer looking images. Spray and pray shooting with a high burst mode is probably not necessary. So a flash operated at 1/4 power should give you a reasonable recycle time if you use alkaline batteries. Timing is everything and burst mode is no insurance that you will get the shot.

I am NOT an advocate of high ISO/ambient light shooting in these scenarios. Shooting at 6400 with your camera is certainly possible, but the reduction in dynamic range and inability to control the lighting make this approach less desirable.

If you decide to consider a speedlight, there is no need to spend a fortune on a Nikon S-900. You can get a Yongnuo YN685 for $110, which will give you almost as much light as an SB-900, iTTL control exposure control, and the best part, especially if you are using it in a darkened room where focus acquisition can sometimes be an issue - an infrared focus assist beam. This is more useful than it seems and it does work well when the flash is mounted on the hot shoe. Setting the flash to 200mm, the guide number will be 193 for ISO 100. Using the swivel and tilt head for bounce light, you will have more than enough light in a residential setting without resorting to full power and slow recycle times.

I don't do a lot of toddler (and older) photography but I do cats and dogs, and the situation is the same - active, unpredictable subjects.

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Aug 14, 2018 07:07:40   #
martinfisherphoto Loc: Lake Placid Florida
 
Unfortunately for you this wonderful and expensive camera does not come with an Auto shooting mode. To capture properly exposed and not blurry pictures requires you to understand how a camera captures the photo. Your camera in essence is a light box. It takes three elements, shutter speed, aperture and ISO. This trio is called the Exposure Triangle. Back when I purchased my first digital camera I had No Clue. I took it along on expensive vacations trying to capture photos of all the wonders I encountered. After several years and thousands of blurry or under exposed or blown out photos I was frustrated to say the least. I would take bits and pieces of info I had read on the internet and try to apply. Without really understanding how it all worked. I then found and read the book, Understanding Exposure 3rd edition by Bryan Peterson. Wow, it allllllllll made since. This simple to read and understand book removed all questions. My photography abilities changed over night. No longer frustrated I could try and succeed capturing photos under any type of lighting conditions, not to mention capture fast moving objects without blurry results. Stop beating your head against the wall, purchase the book and
Really Learn how your camera captures the light......
pipehitter wrote:
Hi.
I'm shooting blurry indoor and low-light outdoor pics of our toddlers playing.

I shoot in manual mode, have tried to tweak the iso, and iso sensitivity, aperture, shutter speed, etc. And only about 10pct of my photos/action shots are not blurry.

I shoot with a Nikon d850 and no flash.

Any camera setting suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Frustrated Dad

Reply
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