TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

.Duplicate

rdgreenwood Loc: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

Sounds like a good read. I teach conversion with Nik, so I’ll look for a copy. Thank you.

rdgreenwood Loc: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

I have to ask, what is Ansel Adams’ position on post-processing to b&w in PS or Nik as opposed to shooting in B&W mode; what does he see as a good histogram for a b&w exposure; is his workflow run through PS, LR, On1, or another software; does he convert to b&w from RAW files, jpg’s, or TIFFs; and, does he let his ISO float? These are questions my students ask; which of the five volumes or four hundred images will answer those questions?

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

Hey DUDE, you asked a question, and it was answered NICELY. Why the sarcasm DUDE?

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

More sarcasm DUDE. No one is going to help you again if you keep this up.

BrianFlaherty Loc: Wilseyville, CA

Mr Greenwood:
When your students ask a question, does your answer ALSO include "how" and "where" they might find the answer for themselves when YOU are not available?

I've taught at all levels from kindergarten to college (in virtually every subject in the curriculum) over fifty years. . .And, I have found that teaching "Beyond" the specifics of ANY question yields greater understanding; and, makes the class more interesting and enjoyable (and, educationally "profitable") when the students are able to expand the scope of their question AND the answers on their own!. And, the "sense of achievement" they acquire allows them the satisfaction of "Look what I can do on my own!" Students have come back numerous times. . even years later. . .saying: "I remember what you taught me and I use the skills EVERY day. . .Thanks for pointing me in the direction to find the answer!"

I'll bet that Ansel Adams did NOT use "histograms" and all our 21st Century gibberish. . .But, his work somehow remains among those "standards" that today's photographers work with. . .

Ya wanna know about "light" and " contrast" and all that other stuff related to B&W photography, take a gander at Leonardo Da Vinci. . .Rembrandt. . .and, all the NON-CAMERA artists over the centuries! These guys also knew their stuff! I spent two full days in the Prado in Madrid, looking at how Velasquez and Dali handled "lighting" and "contrast" etc. . .And, a couple days later, I visited the works of El Greco in the Toledo (Spain) Cathedral. This was followed by another couple days in the Reina Sofia, checking out Picasso's works including "Guernica" (a B&W painting!). . .I do NOT "paint" but, I DO shoot pictures with my Nikon. . .And, the time spent looking at the paintings of the Masters has made me a better picture-taker. . .

And, if ya really want to learn photography, bring along a copy of John Muir (even if it has no pictures) when you go
walkabout in the Sierra. . .His descriptions of mountains and rivers and lakes and trees and the sky are a "must" for any who aspire to becoming a "better" B&W photographer. . .An hour or several spent walking a trail "with" Ansel Adams and John Muir is a post-graduate course in photography.

As long as I'm rambling, I might as well bring in Walker Evans or Dorothea Lange or Helen Levitt if ya wanna "learn" about B&W photography. . .An hour "spent" with these or any of the other photographers of the 30's and 40's is much easier to stomach than a page or two in a dry textbook. . .

One of the recurring themes I've encountered in UHH is the issue of "Equipment vs The Eye of the Photographer". . .The best equipment is ONLY as good as the "eye" and "soul" of the man or woman holding the camera!

So, Mr Greenwood. . .Are you teaching your students to find the "right" page in the "right book". . .That's like teaching a person how to write a poem by handing them a dictionary! All the words are there, but. . .it ain't Shakespeare until William arranges them in his inimitable style!

So, if you want to give the student "one book" on "photography". . .It ain't gonna happen! You might as well just give them the Owner's Manual that comes with the camera! 'Cuz THAT "one book" will ONLY fit the camera they're using at the moment. . .Canon or Nikon or Olympus or . . .whatever!

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

I'm sorry to be one of the violators, but, as a teacher, I thought you might want to concentrate more on the "photography" part as well as the digital. Sorry if I derailed your thread, that was not my intention.

Honestly, I haven't seen many good books on this topic in B&M bookstores. They are either technology heavy, with little emphasis on the items I cited above as readily transferrable from film to digital, or they are more generally focused (e.g. "The Exposure Triangle", which is a good basic work set in a digital context). The inherent problem with all technology books is that by the time they're printed, the technology has already been supplanted by a newer generation.

The best general work I've seen (and, due warning, I have only leafed through it - I didn't think it worth purchasing) is the Harold Davis book, available on Amazon, here:

https://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Black-White-Handbook-Processing/dp/1580934781/ref=pd_sim_14_12?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1580934781&pd_rd_r=beca5f6e-7af5-11e8-a723-e1704d42a2dd&pd_rd_w=IAG8l&pd_rd_wg=n7yVW&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=7967298517161621930&pf_rd_r=3MDC2N34QJX985N2KWEE&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=3MDC2N34QJX985N2KWEE

This was only published last year, but some of the information is already out of date. It is heavily Adobe-centric, but has mentions of other software packages. The photographs are excellent, and sometimes inspiring. If you want your students to see real digital images, using PP software and recent cameras, this is the way I'd go.

You may form your own opinions of his artistic takes on the subject, but the technical information is solid, though limited in scope. He is a very "prescriptive" writer, concentrating more on the "what to do" than "why to do it". If that's what you're looking for, it's a solid choice.

I'm also a fan of Michael Freeman's work, but not sure of how current his latest editions may be. The ones I've seen in the flesh were all several years old, but the concepts haven't changed. Warning - his presentation of "how to" information is also heavily Adobe-centric, as are many otherwise good books on b/w in the digital age. Honestly, I find the rather tedious Youtube videos better for learning post processing techniques, as they are focused on the latest software versions.

All said, I would recommend either of these authors only in conjunction with a good work on the principles of B/W photography, and updated videos on the particular PP software you recommend or teach in your classes. Some of the online downloadable books (e.g. Victoria Bampton's series, and Creative Light's lessons) also have good sections on PP in black and white. They are often very software specific as well. Since I use LightRoom / Photoshop, my knowledge is limited to the above two publishers.

Best wishes, and I'll try to take your posts more literally in the future.

Andy

BrianFlaherty Loc: Wilseyville, CA

Good post, Andy. . .

I will also check out the books you've listed. . .

Brian

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

Thanks Brian. If you're interested in a basic book on b/w photography as a companion to the digital stuff, and don't want all the technical details that Adams goes into, or if the OP wants to add a simpler non-digital basic guide, I'd recommend this:

https://www.amazon.com/Black-White-Photography-Manual-Revised/dp/0316373052/ref=pd_rhf_cr_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G00ABMY9SED4SXGWFXZY

One of my favorites since I picked up the first edition many years ago, at the close of the age of film.

Andy

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Having used B&W since ‘68 as well, as both a film and digital user, I don’t see much difference. If you use digital technology correctly, you can achieve similar results, in less time, with higher quality (than 35mm and some medium format), and a lot more precision.

The books rjay listed are a great start. But a good book on general photography is still useful.

When the digital revolution happened (1995 to 2005), I found parallels between everything I’d learned with film and what I needed to do with digital technology. At the same time, it would have been much easier to become proficient at digital photography had I never used film!

I know that, because I was leading a lot of people in a large pro portrait lab through the transition. That led to (re-)training portrait photographers. The easiest people to train were new employees who had never used film technology.

BrianFlaherty Loc: Wilseyville, CA

Thanks for the info, Andy. . .

I'm sortof a "dinosaur" <smile> Though I shoot digital 99% of the time, I still have an F-3 that I really like; especially with a Nikkor 85mm f1.4 that I've had for over 45 years. . .And, I can still get great HAND-HELD shots. . .

When I get really lazy, I grab the D7000 and a D7100. . .one fitted with an 18-35mm; the other with a 28-300mm (I don't have to change lenses <smile>). . .

Brian

cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast

I was about to suggest the set from Ansel. They would be the first books I would get. I have had my set for years and have re-read them a few times to refresh myself.

Kuzano

The John Beardsworth book on Advanced Digital Black & White photography is shown (priced from $7.98 used) on this Amazon Link is a great book. I have also used a couple of the others from Lake Publishing, which are also good. But at $8, the Beardsworth book is the best I have seen. (Every used book I have purchased from used sellers on Amazon have been excellent, even some with unbroken spines!)

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Digital-Black-White-Photography/dp/1454704195

rdgreenwood Loc: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

Andy, As an educator, I wanted to answer a question: The question was, "What's a good book on digital b&w photography?" You and a bunch of other people have chosen to take that simple question and blow it into an opportunity to strut about like pedants and turn it into a dissertation on the art, history, and practice of photography. All the guy asked me for was a book title. Now, you would think that with all the expertise, experience, and enthusiasm that's present in UHH, there'd be more than a handfull of people who had a simple answer to that simple question.

No, that's not the case. What I've witnessed instead, is a parade of pedants, Lebowski's, and historians, all of whom seem hell-bent on side-stepping the very simple question that I asked. If you asked me what book I'd recommend for printing, I'd say Looten's book "Photographic Enlarging and Print Quality." I would not offer a discussion of the history of the daguerreotype. I've been attacked for being sarcastic or high-handed. My goodness, all I asked for was a book title! A small group of people have shown that they understood my query. The rest should just chill. If you don't know the title of a good book on digital, b&w photography, that doesn't mean you're a bad person. It also doesn't mean it's time to role out the "Ansel Adams is the best ever" banners. I agree that Adams was amazing. I concede that viewing his images will inspire you. I agree that today's photographers can learn by studying Adams' photographs. But where in Adams' work or writings does my student find an example of a good b&w image's histogram?

Give me a break. I'm only trying to find a book title to pass along to a student.

rdgreenwood Loc: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

Excellent. Thank you very much.