canon Lee

From experience what lens do you use to limit the distortion of the walls on each end of the frame? I have a Canon 7D ( cropped sensor), & am using EFS-17~55mm F2.8.. I am looking to cut down on editing time (HDR) by straightening the walls... I am aware that distortion comes from the lens not being parallel to the floor, but that is not always possible... Tilt/shift? I am just getting into real estate photography, & have done a few shoots and am willing to invest in the right lens for this type of shoot...
No offense to my fellow photographers & I know many here have opinions, but I am interested in those suggestions from experienced real estate photographers.....I am aware of ways in Photoshop to straighten walls... Just looking for a way to cut down on editing time..

fotoman150

Hey Lee. I’m interested in this also. Also I sent you a PM awhile back. Not sure if you got it.

jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA

Canon Lee,
Although I don't shoot for real estate, I do shoot architecturally for interior designers and architects. The bane of my shooting experience was perspective distortion when I was using any lens wider than 20-24mm. Post film, I started out on an Olympus bridge camera moving to a Canon 10D and a Sigma wide angle zoom. Upgrading bodies and lenses brought me to a 16-35mm and I still had to contend with perspective distortion.

My current set up is full frame Canons with 3 TS-e lenses. My workhorse is the 24mm TSE II followed by the original 45mm TSE. I have 2 heavy duty tripods, one with the Nodal Ninja leveler and the other has the Manfrotto 405. With these heads, I can achieve level (to be parallel to the walls AND floor) and using shift, get wider with acceptable distortion from the 24mm and none with the 45mm.

I am not sure if using a tilt-shift lens will cut your editing time, as it creates another process you have. You would need to decide what is distortion worth compared to the cost of a TSE and the processing time required.

But getting your camera level will certainly help and the Nodal Ninja is a less espensive way of getting it.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/850732-REG/Nodal_Ninja_EZL_II_C_EZ_Leveler_II.html#!

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

A tilt shift lens will cut your editing time, but will increase your shooting time.

What would be wrong with an in camera panorama with a 24 mm lens? Or post production merge with multiple images. Unless you're photographing some McMansion, I cannot imagine a residential space that would take more than 3 - 4 exposures to capture the entire room

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Are you talking about curved distortion - usually barrel in wide lenses - or keystoning from not holding the camera level?

I use a couple of tilt shift lenses, but the tripod and camera levels are your best friends in this situation. Then to correct minor keystoning you can use DXO Viewpoint 3 - which does a really good job at correcting keystoning while having the least amount of negative impact on the image.

A tilt shift lens will have a very small impact on your shooting time - you still need to level your camera. Then you shift to include more top, bottom, left or right. I use shift to create a simple pano using just the shift to hit all the areas I can without moving the camera. That often works well for me.

jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA

DXO VP3 is an excellent program for this. Gene is the mentor I wish I had.
You'll find a dedicated leveler will actually speed the process of getting your camera set. Ball heads are frustratingly imprecise and 3 way pan heads are better, but still not as fast as the Nodal Ninja.

canon Lee

Hi Gene.. I am not sure what the correct term is... but it is when the walls are tilted ... Not curved... There is a tilt "horizontal and vertical" in LR ( under "transform" edit), that I have been using for quick tilt or shift... It works ok but I like better.... I am not at all satisfied with " edit in abobe photoshop" Edit/transform.. I tried all of the transform choices, finding it warps and takes forever..... Im going to try the DXO viewpoint.... Can I edit in that program and not leave LR, Like I do using "edit in" and save it back to LR..?

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Thanks!

Funny - I use an Arca-Swiss Z1 ball head, together with the in-camera leveling feature in my Nikon cameras. MY D700, D3S, D800 and D810 all have it. Takes but a couple of seconds. But if I am doing anything where I anticipate moving the camera, I will use the tripod leveling bowl, then level the camera. From that point forward, If I move the camera, I just have to re-level the tripod - the camera will be already leveled.

I don't do much architectural and interior work any more, but it is pretty much all I did during the 70s, using a Sinar P 4x5 and Nikon's large format wide angle lenses - 65mm, 75mm and 90mm.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

That's called keystoning, and it's not really a distortion. It is a viewpoint visual phenomenon. If you look down a railroad track, you will see the rails appear to come together in the distance. This is exactly what is happening when you point a camera up or down, or the sensor is not parallel to the wall surface - you will get these new, and sometimes multiple vanishing points.

You would edit in DXO Viewpoint. It works best when the lens and camera you are using is in DXO's database of lenses and cameras - and you have the original raw file that it can access to make automatic lens corrections prior to messing around with the viewpoints and keystoning. You'll find DXO's lens profiles are way better than those in Lightroom and Photoshop.

jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA

I've always had a devil of a time trying to make the minute adjustments to get the camera level in both planes with a ball head. I tried loose and with friction, but could not get it right without a bit of time trying. I have a leveling bowl on another tripod, but have never used it for architectural. The geared knobs of the nodal and Manfrotto has saved me a lot of time. Usually, when in a home, I can roll the tripod to the next comp, lock it down again and still be level. If not, a minor adjustment is all it takes.

canon Lee

Thanks for the correct technical term... What about the lens? does this add to the Keystoning effect? I am not interested in a tilt/shift adapter or lens.... Ill check out viewpoint..

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I have been doing interior and exterior architectural photography for many years. In the past, most of this was one with large format view cameras with a full complement of tilts, swings and shifts. The closest I now get to that kind of image management with a DSLR is with the Canon 18mm f/4.0 Tilt and Shift Lens. On your cropped body it will encompass a field of view that approximates a 24mm on a full frame camera. It works well in cramped quarters and corrects well for keystoning, foreshortening when shooting upward and keeps vertical walls distortion free when set correctly. It is also very effective for effecting more depth of field via the Scheimpflug method- I find that very useful for featuring flooring in very large rooms.

Theses lenses are rather costly. I do find that many times I can keep the camera parallel by positioning it half the distance in height between the floor and the ceiling and not tilting at all- the only post processing issue is a bit of cropping for excess floor or ceiling. Minor distortion can be easily remedied in post as well.

The 18mm is extremely sharp and has a very large circle of coverage so it can be used at maximum shifts without any light loss or vignetting at the edges. If you get a second full frame body, it will become a super-wide with excellent coverage and very little intrinsic distortion at the edges.

There are other perspective control models with longer focal lengths, however, I opted for the shorter focal length. I can always move in closer or do a bit of cropping. If I get stuck with too long a lens in close quarters, there is not much I can do except create a panorama and lace images together.

I hope this helps.

jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA

Ed,

I use the 17mm TSe for really tight shots also. (I assume we are talking about the same lens) but usually use the 24mm in most rooms because the anamorphic distortion on the edges, for me, becomes way out of proportion to the real life furniture using the 17mm.


My wife, as one of the designers I shoot for, gives me grief to no end when this happens on a shoot. I wonder what the difference is in the way you and I employ this lens that we get different results? As with Gene51, I look forward to learning anything I can from your experience and expertise. Not just from this question, but from your many shared information posts.

ecurb1105

20mm on a full frame camera.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Hey, Thanks for the heads up on the typos- someday I will learn how to type and spell correctly! You are right, indeed it is a 17mm lens! Where did I get 18mm from???

The reason I opted for that focal length in my own case and recommend this to Lee is two fold. Lee is presently using a cropped camera body so the 17mm model will approximate the angle of view of the 24mm lens on a full frame camera. The sensor will not "see" the extreme edges of the field where some intrinsic distortion may be introduced. In my own cases, what with the price of theses lenses, I opted for the 17mm model because I have a regular, non PC, 24mm lens that works well as long as I maintain a level camera position as I explained in my previous post. Since I oftentimes find myself in tight quarters, I want the tilt/shift feature on my widest option.

In REAL ESTATE work as opposed to interior decoration illustrations, the rendition of the furnishings, if any, is not quite as critical. I do photograph some model homes, fully furnished condo (model) apartments and some homes that are for sale but still furnished, however, the perspectives on the furniture and the wall decor and carpeting (etc.) is not as critical. Of course, I don't want to have extremely forced perspectives that make an average sized living room look like a grand ballroom. The 17mm acting as a 24mm will not do that and even on a full frame body, if the camera position is managed properly, that should not become an issue.

I know there has been a lot of "talk" on this site about real estate images and issues of falsifying the spaces by implementing wide angle lenses. I usually opt for the longest lens I can get away with but in the majority of cases, wide angle lenses are needed to show any given space in a comprehensive manner. To give the ultimate viewer a more realistic impression of any room setting, if there is furniture, it can be used for foreground framing and giving the room SCALE. If there is a sofa, a coffee table, a piano or bedroom furnishing in a room, folks can get a good idea of scale because they know what these things look like in actual size. Also, common sense dictates that folks usually don't buy real estate, rent apartments, purchases costly furniture or hire an interior decorator sight unseen. We just need to make certain that things are represented with reasonable accuracy so people are not shocked or disappointed or feel they have been misled when they view the site in person.

When I work with interior decorators, furniture manufacturers and dealers and specialists such as flooring and window treatments providers, I collaborate closely with them as to their expectations. Some just want shots that express the "feel" of the room and others need more perspective/perfect images to represent their products and services. Many want both approaches so I do all over shots and detailed ones so brochures and website ads have allover shots and inserts of detailed pieces. In some cases, if the are ultra critical and want to "have their cake and eat it too" I need to pull out the view camera, use film and have the advantages of full fledged image management. Don't forget, a DSLR does not have a tilting and shifting BACK standard. So if ultimate perspective control to address linear distortion, converging lines, AND additional depth of field via the Scheimpflug method, you need a camera that can assume the shape of a pretzel- not usually needed for real estate work!

By the way- Once the photographer gets the feel of the perspective control lenses, the workflow on-site goes quickly. It a good idea to get used to the lens before taking it out on a shoot. There are some depth of field issues and apertures that give the sharpest images. Fortunately, if there are no people in the shots and no action to freeze you can choose the lowest ISO index, the most advantageous aperture and expose at slower shutter speeds if necessary.

I hope this helps!