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Jun 15, 2018 17:48:15   #
Nikon1201
 
Yes they have , but I’ve made more money the lazy way and clients can see results right away not a week later.

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Jun 15, 2018 19:45:35   #
Dennis833 Loc: Australia
 
I have overcome this problem by using the same technique that I used when shooting with large format film. But I only shoot landscapes. I compose my images with a Linhof optical viewfinder and don't unpack my camera until I have a really good image to shoot. I set up my tripod at the exact hight and composition before I attach the camera. Unfortunately I haven't yet got a solution for shooting more exposures than I need.

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Jun 15, 2018 20:48:01   #
pbradin Loc: Florida
 
I used to shoot high school rodeos, and yes, there are rodeos for middle school and high-school-age kids (National High School Rodeo Association) all over the country with a National High School Finals Rodeo so the top contestants from each state (top 4 in each event from each state) can compete for a national championship for individuals and a state team national championship. I was shooting film, about 20 - 36 shot rolls per weekend of Fuji 800 print film (expensive!). I switched over to digital as soon as Canon came out with the Digital Rebel (6MP). It paid for itself in five rodeos. But, I basically shot the same way. For each event (calf-roping, bull riding, barrel racing, etc.) I positioned myself in the position that experience taught me was the best place to be for each event. The only difference was that I didn't have to wait until they were in the perfect place (which was hit-or-miss with film). Now I could shoot 3 quick shots in rapid succession to get the right shot with horse and rider and calf or barrel or whatever in the right position. You could not do that with film because the camera could not react fast enough. I knew exactly what I was looking for, the position of the horse's feet (at a full gallop), the position of the rider, the position of everything else, the depth-of-field, exactly what to focus on, and where that big light bulb in the sky was. After I went digital, I would do a three-shot-burst at each perfect place of each contestant in each event. If that takes me out of the "artist" category, then so be it. But if you talk with any of the great nature photographers like "Artie (Arthur) Morris, who was good enough to be on Canon's payroll as one of their "Explorers of Light", you would discover that he would lay down in the mud for days at the Jamaica Bay Preserve (near JFK airport in NY) taking shots until he got the "perfect one". Then he would do it again for a week or two until he got the next "perfect one". I think the artistry is when you know what the "perfect shot" is, what it should look like - the exposure, the background, the composition, the way the subject is lit, etc. Painters don't just go and paint a painting. They struggle with it, redoing this part or that part, even throwing the whole thing away and starting over, because it "just doesn't look right". They learn what is right about this part or that part and they repeat those parts in the "new" piece, and do the other parts differently until they like the whole thing. I used to do picture framing for artists. I knew the "angst" they went through to get that award-winner. So, I think you are an artist if you have an idea in your head of how you want that photo to look like and you keep shooting, changing this or that, until it all works. If you just point and hold the shutter down for a bunch of shots, that is not artistry, that is luck.

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Jun 15, 2018 21:49:16   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
Lots of comments from full time or part time pros, as should be expected.

But if photography is your art, your passion, your recreation, is "overshooting" really enhancing the experience and the pleasure?

Does some self discipline, internally or externally imposed, make for a better experience?

I'm not answering (except for myself, maybe...), just askin'

Andy

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Jun 15, 2018 21:58:21   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
I don't feel that your equipment or medium should influence your approach to working artfully, methodologically, carefully and precisely. A lazy, careless or inapt photographer will produce mediocre or poor work whether he or she is using an 8x10 view camera with, of course, film or the latest digital equipment. There is no reason why satisfying high quality imagery can not be done just because the method and materials are more convenient and less costly to produce.

In professional work, I shot film for many decades but always considered the film and processing the “cheapest” commodity when compared to the time, effort and many expenses of producing an image or covering an assignment. I always shot many variations, alternative angles and lightnings on every shoot- as much as I need to to make certain that I will achieve the results I need. Of course, the onus on a professional is always to come back with the job, well done, for the clients. With this simple philosophy in mind, I now carry the same concept into my more casual or personal work as well.

Even in my in-studio commercial work that used to be done on large format, I could work all day on a single setup- a food layout or a difficult product shot. I never felt that there was some kind of a challenge to pull the job off in one shot- why? Who am I gonna impress? I would work carefully to perfect the composition, the lighting and the exposure, make Polaroid tests, to verify but still make some bracketed exposures and try a few alternative angles or variations before breaking down the set. Some approach on location assignments- lots of shots, different points of view, lighting designs, effects and backup images.

All right- there is the “safety factor”- in professional work we may be dealing with models, stylists, assistants and other overhead costs and fees -we can't afford re-shoots nor is their time what with deadlines and schedules. So...even if you decide to go out and shoot some landscapes, vacation shots, something at a sports event or a car show or an air show- whatever. You paid for the gas, you drove there, paid admission, lugged you gear around and you wanna come home with something decent to show for all your hard work.. Shoot as much as you feel comfortable with. Work carefully- bracket you exposures, compose precisely, TAKE YOUR TIME- unless your shooting motor-sports or a street riot- whats the rush! Only gun and run when you have to! Think about the shots you didn't like last time and don't do that again!

You know what? Folks philosophize about their photography too much! They ask and worry, “am I an artist-a crafts-person, a technician, a photographer”? Just get down and do the work- express yourselves with you images and enjoy what you are doing. This is the greatest era for photography, the technology is there for us! We can observe and scrutinize our works as we do it. We don't have to wait for darkroom or lab results. We can remedy problems and make corrections right on the spot. Create you images in the camera and you won't need to re-create them on the computer. Post processing techniques enable us to enhance our images and maximize what we captured in the camera. If anything, we all should be doing better and more exciting work than “back in the day.

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Jun 15, 2018 22:21:52   #
josquin1 Loc: Massachusetts
 
I shot 35mm film for years and then upgraded to medium format and that made me all the more careful in composing my photographs. I had my own darkroom and i found I was very satisfied with my final products but still strived to always improve. When a few years ago I lost access to a darkroom I decided to bite the bullet and go digital. It took me a few years to respect the new system but I grew to be just as excited with the final product with my photo printer as with my darkroom. But I still compose very carefully and do not do very much post production. I try to envision when I take the picture the final product. But I do take many more pictures as it is so easy to do. So enjoy taking more exposures of the same subject but while shooting compose just as carefully as you did with film and envision that final print. I get the same sense of fulfillment as I did with film and I hope you will also.

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Jun 15, 2018 22:39:20   #
josquin1 Loc: Massachusetts
 
I have a friend who is a professional artist who says that there is no such thing as bad art [I'm speaking of professionally trained artists]. It is in the eye of the observer that makes such a judgement. You might not like it but that does not mean it's bad. And if you happen to like it that does not mean that it is good. It is what it is not what the observer thinks it is. Controversial yes but perhaps it is true.

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Jun 15, 2018 23:40:18   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Jerry G wrote:
I shot film years ago and recently renewed my interest in photography. I found the freedom digital has brought to photography has made me lazy. When I shot film I would spend a good deal of effort on each photo, often not taking a shot if I wasn't satisfied, now I just take the shot and a couple more for good measure. I know this is a personal problem but was wondering if others have fallen into the habit of taking shots they are not happy with and what you do while you are shooting to resist being lazy.
I shot film years ago and recently renewed my inte... (show quote)


Yep,digital will do that. It is the nature of the beast.

I still shoot film as well to, as you say, “resist being lazy”. I shot 7 rolls on my last trip. I also shot digital. The keeper rate for film shots was much much higher.

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Jun 16, 2018 02:45:56   #
waegwan Loc: Mae Won Li
 
Jerry G wrote:
I shot film years ago and recently renewed my interest in photography. I found the freedom digital has brought to photography has made me lazy. When I shot film I would spend a good deal of effort on each photo, often not taking a shot if I wasn't satisfied, now I just take the shot and a couple more for good measure. I know this is a personal problem but was wondering if others have fallen into the habit of taking shots they are not happy with and what you do while you are shooting to resist being lazy.
I shot film years ago and recently renewed my inte... (show quote)


Yup very much so which is why I use a 6D 1st edition. It is not noted for features at laest not as readily available as on some other cameras and it forces me to slow down and pay attention to what I am doing

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Jun 16, 2018 03:28:40   #
MissSue
 
Jerry, I think it has to do with your name... my husband is Jerry too and he is lazy! He takes multiple shots of the exact same thing... without changing a thing and it drives me crazy because he doesn't do the PP... I do!
I go through the thousands of pictures from our travels and he shoots at least 3+ to my one and I put them into books... I just finished our Iceland Trip :) And having him dog me for every picture that he took to put in this book is driving me crazy. I think the next book will only be his pictures and I will put mine in a separate book. I like to be a little more choosy I guess.
Just know that as long as you are enjoying what you are doing then it's all okay. You are hurting no one... that is if you do the PP :)
enjoy your weekend.

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Jun 16, 2018 08:51:36   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
This wording puts things in a useful perspective: "when I travel I take 1,000 to 1,500 exposures a week, but that is what I would have done in the film days if the technology of the time allowed that. Note that I never use the rapid fire function of my cameras because I still compose each photo using the same rules I learned in school."

Your discipline, skill, and experience produce worthy photographs whatever the mode of photography.
bpulv wrote:
This is not a new question, but it is one that provokes thought. In the film days, top photography schools started students with view cameras and taught them to take time, consider each shot and look corner to corner on the ground glass to make sure before clicking the shutter. I think that is the best way to learn the art. It was also practical because film, chemicals and paper costs per exposure were expensive and additionally, you could only shoot a finite number of exposures before you either had to stop and change film or change cameras. Additionally, you could not economically check the outcome on the spot unless you used a Polaroid film holder and expensive Polaroid film. That all abruptly changed with the introduction of the digital world.

Although I learned in that environment and have followed that training all of my life, I have made adjustments for the new media because the controlling issue today is not the cost per exposure or the time it takes to change film. Yes, when I travel I take 1,000 to 1,500 exposures a week, but that is what I would have done in the film days if the technology of the time allowed that. Note that I never use the rapid fire function of my cameras because I still compose each photo using the same rules I learned in school, but I do take more opportunities to take photos because the technology allows me the freedom to do that. Unless I am taking pictures from a moving tour bus that forces a large percentage of throw-aways, I still take my time and set up each shot. I am just able to be more productive because the technology allows me to be more productive.
This is not a new question, but it is one that pro... (show quote)

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Jun 16, 2018 09:37:20   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
I do that all the time (also cut my teeth with film starting in 1973). I don't think of it as being lazy, but as having the technology to photograph things I would otherwise not photograph. I've driven cross country twice in the past two years; I've taken a large number of photos that will never be considered artistic, but I took (and shared them) to show the vast distances involved -- something we easterners can't comprehend. I also photographed a lot of good shots, but I knew they were good when I took them.

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Jun 16, 2018 13:23:37   #
tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana
 
dsmeltz wrote:
I think we have all heard of famous painters who have worked for long periods on a painting and then destroy it in frustration and start over. The same thing is going on here. There is a subconscious commitment to and investment in the work already done. Sometimes the only way the painter can go forward is to destroy the canvas. In digital photography, sometimes, we get invested in all the shots we took and get analysis paralysis. That is why I have been trying to be more brutal after a shoot in going home a deleting at least 80% of the shots trying to keep only the very best one or two of a particular composition.
I think we have all heard of famous painters who h... (show quote)


Agreed! I may shoot a large number of images (10-20) of the same subject when I am "inspired" and the subject and lighting are good. I already know that the majority of the images will not be keepers - why? not because they are bad shots, but because there is a better shot in the group. When I get home with 50 images, and keep 2, why is this grounds for assuming I am not an artist? I know what I am trying to capture and I spend my time clicking the shutter rather than obsessing over whether or not a background tree is in the right place. Shoot both and keep the best!

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Jun 16, 2018 13:26:51   #
tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I don't feel that your equipment or medium should influence your approach to working artfully, methodologically, carefully and precisely. A lazy, careless or inapt photographer will produce mediocre or poor work whether he or she is using an 8x10 view camera with, of course, film or the latest digital equipment. There is no reason why satisfying high quality imagery can not be done just because the method and materials are more convenient and less costly to produce.

In professional work, I shot film for many decades but always considered the film and processing the “cheapest” commodity when compared to the time, effort and many expenses of producing an image or covering an assignment. I always shot many variations, alternative angles and lightnings on every shoot- as much as I need to to make certain that I will achieve the results I need. Of course, the onus on a professional is always to come back with the job, well done, for the clients. With this simple philosophy in mind, I now carry the same concept into my more casual or personal work as well.

Even in my in-studio commercial work that used to be done on large format, I could work all day on a single setup- a food layout or a difficult product shot. I never felt that there was some kind of a challenge to pull the job off in one shot- why? Who am I gonna impress? I would work carefully to perfect the composition, the lighting and the exposure, make Polaroid tests, to verify but still make some bracketed exposures and try a few alternative angles or variations before breaking down the set. Some approach on location assignments- lots of shots, different points of view, lighting designs, effects and backup images.

All right- there is the “safety factor”- in professional work we may be dealing with models, stylists, assistants and other overhead costs and fees -we can't afford re-shoots nor is their time what with deadlines and schedules. So...even if you decide to go out and shoot some landscapes, vacation shots, something at a sports event or a car show or an air show- whatever. You paid for the gas, you drove there, paid admission, lugged you gear around and you wanna come home with something decent to show for all your hard work.. Shoot as much as you feel comfortable with. Work carefully- bracket you exposures, compose precisely, TAKE YOUR TIME- unless your shooting motor-sports or a street riot- whats the rush! Only gun and run when you have to! Think about the shots you didn't like last time and don't do that again!

You know what? Folks philosophize about their photography too much! They ask and worry, “am I an artist-a crafts-person, a technician, a photographer”? Just get down and do the work- express yourselves with you images and enjoy what you are doing. This is the greatest era for photography, the technology is there for us! We can observe and scrutinize our works as we do it. We don't have to wait for darkroom or lab results. We can remedy problems and make corrections right on the spot. Create you images in the camera and you won't need to re-create them on the computer. Post processing techniques enable us to enhance our images and maximize what we captured in the camera. If anything, we all should be doing better and more exciting work than “back in the day.
I don't feel that your equipment or medium should ... (show quote)



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Jun 16, 2018 14:21:29   #
NCMtnMan Loc: N. Fork New River, Ashe Co., NC
 
I think how many shots you take has a lot more to do with what you are shooting than how "professional" you are about it. I shoot landscape and nature exclusively. Landscapes obviously give you more opportunity to fine tune your shots, even those change with the lighting etc. While looking at composition, lighting, etc. are extremely important, you don't necessarily always have the luxury of taking vast amounts of time to get the shot. What you're trying to photograph may not give you that opportunity. It may move or leave the scene completely. So, you take lots of shots with differing variables of ISO, shutter speed, exposure etc. as fast as you can while you have the brief opportunity. I just took 15 shots yesterday of a butterfly slowly turning in a circle on a flower while there was a slight breeze. Between the breeze and the movement of the butterfly I would never have taken the chance of capturing it with only one or two shots. Call me a "snap shot photographer" if you choose. But now I have the most enjoyable task of choosing which one of the shots elicits that "Oh, wow!" reaction.

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