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When is an external backup disk "too full"?
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Jun 2, 2018 16:49:54   #
wrangler5 Loc: Missouri
 
My images reside on an external hard drive, from where they are accessed and manipulated by Lightroom. Every night the top-level Photo folder is backed up to another external hard drive - just in case. This backup drive is never accessed unless something goes wrong which (so far, knock on wood, etc.) it hasn't.

The backup drive is filling up, and I'm wondering when it makes sense to replace it with a larger one? I have a recollection that in the days when a gigabyte was a BIG disk (my original IBM PC has a 20 MEGAbyte hard disk, which was an expensive upgrade from the standard 10 Mb disk) there was a rule of thumb that you shouldn't let your hard drive get much more than 90% full. But in today's muti-terabyte drives, 10% of, say, a 2TB drive is still 200 GIGAbytes of space. Even with the largest Nikon or Canon sensors, 200GB will still hold a LOT of images.

I understand that with an "active" disk that gets written to and read from a lot, with constant changes to files, there needs to be disk space for the operating system to do its work properly. But for a backup disk, where basically each file gets written once and then is left untouched, unless it gets read off to replace one that got corrupted or lost, how much "spare" room does the disk really need to have for these single-write and occasional single-read operations to work properly? (I assume the same factors would apply to my external movie hard drive, to which I rip my DVDs so they can be viewed at will on various monitors around the house using Apple TVs - movies get ripped and written once, and then just read on demand.)

Thanks for any thoughts.

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Jun 2, 2018 17:02:52   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
I think you're on the right track. For example, I have 60TB of disk space for photo related backup purposes and 6TB of that is still a hell of a lot of room. So, just add to your formula the rate at which you seem to be using space and you'll get a good answer. In my case, that 60TB is NAS space, which is easily added to just by a adding an additional drive, so I'm in good shape. (My original IBM PC had dual 5.25" floppies but I added a 10MB drive for only a grand!) I get nervous at @ 1GB! Best of luck.

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Jun 2, 2018 17:10:14   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Figure the size(s) of each addition, then figure how many more additions you can do on the remaining space.
Replace or add to before you only have a couple of transfers remaining.
I hope you are maintaining a backup of the disk/images.

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Jun 3, 2018 02:09:42   #
rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
 
There is no such thing as too full and there is no reason to leave a few megabytes of unused space on the disk.

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Jun 3, 2018 06:08:20   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
You have got a problem which you need to resolve first before worrying about what to do about another backup drive. To digress first though you should probably only fill a drive until the drive turns red and you get a near full drive warning from the OS. Because this warning will nag you repeatably until you fix the issue several times each session. This may well be 90% can't remember but may amount to 400GB on a 4TB drive.
Now the problem that needs solving. What are you going to save ? We do image backups so the working drive matches the backup drive. I don't allow my wife to save all shots regardless because the end result is your archive drive will continually get fuller until you need to up the capacity or add more drives. Either way it never stops and will become a nightmare keeping two lots of backup drives. We already now have a working drive of 4TB and an archive drive of 2TB. Our backup procedure involves 4 drives each (the original, copy on my PC, copy in another building, copy kept offsite). Once you decide to save either "everything" or only "selected" work then you can decide what is the best solution for you. You soon learn to be brutal.

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Jun 3, 2018 07:00:40   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
wrangler5 wrote:
My images reside on an external hard drive, from where they are accessed and manipulated by Lightroom. Every night the top-level Photo folder is backed up to another external hard drive - just in case. This backup drive is never accessed unless something goes wrong which (so far, knock on wood, etc.) it hasn't.

The backup drive is filling up, and I'm wondering when it makes sense to replace it with a larger one? I have a recollection that in the days when a gigabyte was a BIG disk (my original IBM PC has a 20 MEGAbyte hard disk, which was an expensive upgrade from the standard 10 Mb disk) there was a rule of thumb that you shouldn't let your hard drive get much more than 90% full. But in today's muti-terabyte drives, 10% of, say, a 2TB drive is still 200 GIGAbytes of space. Even with the largest Nikon or Canon sensors, 200GB will still hold a LOT of images.

I understand that with an "active" disk that gets written to and read from a lot, with constant changes to files, there needs to be disk space for the operating system to do its work properly. But for a backup disk, where basically each file gets written once and then is left untouched, unless it gets read off to replace one that got corrupted or lost, how much "spare" room does the disk really need to have for these single-write and occasional single-read operations to work properly? (I assume the same factors would apply to my external movie hard drive, to which I rip my DVDs so they can be viewed at will on various monitors around the house using Apple TVs - movies get ripped and written once, and then just read on demand.)

Thanks for any thoughts.
My images reside on an external hard drive, from w... (show quote)


In a situation like this, it's not the space, but the percentage. Files get split up all over a disk, and having a small percentage of space left can cause problems, or so I've heard.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+full+should+a+hard+drive+get&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS716US717&oq=how+full+should+a+hard+drive+get&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.7175j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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Jun 3, 2018 07:33:38   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
If you are using Win 10 then typically your drives will be defragged or optimised on a weekly schedule (time can be changed or you can deal with it manually). So mostly not an issue if you are lowish on disk space. However you do need some scratch space to allow the process to proceed without too much hassle. When Windows optimises it doesn't necessarily defrag every file but does enough to improve the overall efficiency of drive access. If you want to have 100% defrag then you will need a 3rd party application. Or you can reformat the destination drive and copy over everything. This will give you a very tidy disk. SSD drives have their own commands to defrag but if you are at all interested then google "SSD trim".
Contrary to what I said earlier you don't get warnings at 90% BUT when remaining space is 200MB, then 80MB then 50MB. On a 4TB drive by the time you get the warning there isn't much space left. Space remaining gets checked every 10 minutes. You can with a registry edit remove the warning but since some of my wifes edits can be up to 1GB in size it does pay to keep a close eye on available space and to do something before you see the warning message. Saving unwanted edits is even more trouble than just saving every shot.

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Jun 3, 2018 07:41:05   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
There is no such thing as too full and there is no reason to leave a few megabytes of unused space on the disk.


This is not true. There is no consensus on when a hard drive is too full, but common sense suggests that you need enough room to be able to defragment the drive if you write to and delete from that drive regularly. When I have less than 25% free space on a drive, defragging really takes a lot of time, when there is less than 10% it takes forever, so I would think that keeping 15% to 20% free is a reasonable goal. You will also see a big difference in performance when you start getting below 15%. So to your two points, yes, a drive can be too full, and yes, there are some seriously good reasons to leave some unused space on a drive. The only disagreement among IT people is on what constitutes enough free space.

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Jun 3, 2018 07:50:40   #
Nikon1201
 
75% . I have 3 external drives and also use Backblaze a cloud based backup.

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Jun 3, 2018 08:02:43   #
johntaylor333
 
Don't forget - if you use SSDs, you need to TRIM occasionally

Reply
Jun 3, 2018 08:27:55   #
Skiextreme2 Loc: Northwest MA
 
wrangler5 wrote:
My images reside on an external hard drive, from where they are accessed and manipulated by Lightroom. Every night the top-level Photo folder is backed up to another external hard drive - just in case. This backup drive is never accessed unless something goes wrong which (so far, knock on wood, etc.) it hasn't.

The backup drive is filling up, and I'm wondering when it makes sense to replace it with a larger one? I have a recollection that in the days when a gigabyte was a BIG disk (my original IBM PC has a 20 MEGAbyte hard disk, which was an expensive upgrade from the standard 10 Mb disk) there was a rule of thumb that you shouldn't let your hard drive get much more than 90% full. But in today's muti-terabyte drives, 10% of, say, a 2TB drive is still 200 GIGAbytes of space. Even with the largest Nikon or Canon sensors, 200GB will still hold a LOT of images.

I understand that with an "active" disk that gets written to and read from a lot, with constant changes to files, there needs to be disk space for the operating system to do its work properly. But for a backup disk, where basically each file gets written once and then is left untouched, unless it gets read off to replace one that got corrupted or lost, how much "spare" room does the disk really need to have for these single-write and occasional single-read operations to work properly? (I assume the same factors would apply to my external movie hard drive, to which I rip my DVDs so they can be viewed at will on various monitors around the house using Apple TVs - movies get ripped and written once, and then just read on demand.)

Thanks for any thoughts.
My images reside on an external hard drive, from w... (show quote)


When a drive starts to slow down or you get messages about that drive, it's too full and time to get a bigger one.

Reply
 
 
Jun 3, 2018 08:34:59   #
bpulv Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
wrangler5 wrote:
My images reside on an external hard drive, from where they are accessed and manipulated by Lightroom. Every night the top-level Photo folder is backed up to another external hard drive - just in case. This backup drive is never accessed unless something goes wrong which (so far, knock on wood, etc.) it hasn't.

The backup drive is filling up, and I'm wondering when it makes sense to replace it with a larger one? I have a recollection that in the days when a gigabyte was a BIG disk (my original IBM PC has a 20 MEGAbyte hard disk, which was an expensive upgrade from the standard 10 Mb disk) there was a rule of thumb that you shouldn't let your hard drive get much more than 90% full. But in today's muti-terabyte drives, 10% of, say, a 2TB drive is still 200 GIGAbytes of space. Even with the largest Nikon or Canon sensors, 200GB will still hold a LOT of images.

NEVER fill a disk to over 90% of and preferably less then its specified capacity allowing for the fact that part of its capacity is taken by hidden files and "housekeeping" data.

I understand that with an "active" disk that gets written to and read from a lot, with constant changes to files, there needs to be disk space for the operating system to do its work properly. But for a backup disk, where basically each file gets written once and then is left untouched, unless it gets read off to replace one that got corrupted or lost, how much "spare" room does the disk really need to have for these single-write and occasional single-read operations to work properly? (I assume the same factors would apply to my external movie hard drive, to which I rip my DVDs so they can be viewed at will on various monitors around the house using Apple TVs - movies get ripped and written once, and then just read on demand.)

Thanks for any thoughts.
My images reside on an external hard drive, from w... (show quote)


NEVER fill a disk to more then and preferably less then 90% of its rated capacity including the hidden data and "housekeeping" files that every disk system contains for data management.

Reply
Jun 3, 2018 08:44:59   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
wrangler5 wrote:
My images reside on an external hard drive, from where they are accessed and manipulated by Lightroom. Every night the top-level Photo folder is backed up to another external hard drive - just in case. This backup drive is never accessed unless something goes wrong which (so far, knock on wood, etc.) it hasn't.

The backup drive is filling up, and I'm wondering when it makes sense to replace it with a larger one? I have a recollection that in the days when a gigabyte was a BIG disk (my original IBM PC has a 20 MEGAbyte hard disk, which was an expensive upgrade from the standard 10 Mb disk) there was a rule of thumb that you shouldn't let your hard drive get much more than 90% full. But in today's muti-terabyte drives, 10% of, say, a 2TB drive is still 200 GIGAbytes of space. Even with the largest Nikon or Canon sensors, 200GB will still hold a LOT of images.

I understand that with an "active" disk that gets written to and read from a lot, with constant changes to files, there needs to be disk space for the operating system to do its work properly. But for a backup disk, where basically each file gets written once and then is left untouched, unless it gets read off to replace one that got corrupted or lost, how much "spare" room does the disk really need to have for these single-write and occasional single-read operations to work properly? (I assume the same factors would apply to my external movie hard drive, to which I rip my DVDs so they can be viewed at will on various monitors around the house using Apple TVs - movies get ripped and written once, and then just read on demand.)

Thanks for any thoughts.
My images reside on an external hard drive, from w... (show quote)

I don't know what the safety levels are, but so what. A 2 TB back up drive costs so little, that if you are the least bit concerned get a new one. It may not be technically "ncessary" but you will sleep better. Do you let your car run out of gas before you fill er up?

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Jun 3, 2018 09:40:32   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
johntaylor333 wrote:
Don't forget - if you use SSDs, you need to TRIM occasionally


https://www.digitalcitizen.life/simple-questions-what-trim-ssds-why-it-useful
https://www.howtogeek.com/257196/how-to-check-if-trim-is-enabled-for-your-ssd-and-enable-it-if-it-isnt/

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Jun 3, 2018 10:06:06   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
I've read a rule of thumb being 2/3 to 3/4 full. Above that the R/W might slow down especially if the files are fragmented. None of this applies to an SSD external drive where the physical access to the files is electronic and not mechanical.

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