canon Lee

Hello.. I do picture day and my set up is 2 alien bees mono lights, umbrellas, Canon 7D.... I shoot in RAW and when I upload to LR the faces have a yellowish tone to them as well as skin is over saturated.. I have been adjusting my WB, looking at my histogram to move from yellow to blue.... ( even though my Mac 27 is calibrated with a colormunki, I rely only on the histogram) I find that the skin tones are saturated, so I tweak it till it looks right...
Here is my question; Shooting in RAW, is there a setting within the camera that might be causing over saturation and yellow faces ? Is it lighting that causes this...
To compound this, after I adjust WB & saturation the prints come back from my "color lab" dark ( blacks are dense and lack detail) and over saturated color....
Once I send the images via internet, I have no idea what they do with my images before printing.... I lack the understanding of what goes on at the printers with the printers ICC and how color shifts and saturation increases, to compensate between what I send them and what the printer adjust to....????

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Lee, I have a few suggestions that might work.

Leave the white balance alone. Set it to flash, otherwise AWB.
I think the problem is your display is too bright. Make a new display profile. The Colormunki has a coarse adjustment for white point - set that to 80 cda/m². If the prints are still coming out too dark, lower that number by 5. The saturation will be better.
Use a printer profile to soft proof. Do not embed the profile in the image file. If you want, you can make a variant for printing with whatever adjustments you need to make based on the soft proof.

A workflow tip. Use LR to perform your edits. Then, for retouching and finishing, use "Edit In" and select PS. Your options for the file should be set to 16 bit psd, ProPhoto color space. Once the image is completed in PS you'll have a fully edited psd in your catalog. Use that to generate jpegs for distribution, with an output preset for whatever resolution, image size, file size you want, and use the sRGB color space unless a lab will accept AdobeRGB.

SonyA580 Loc: FL in the winter & MN in the summer

If I'm not mistaken the white balance setting is disabled when shooting RAW. You can change it to suit your taste is PP.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

No, it's not disabled. But, yes, you can easily change WB when you shoot RAW.

First, it sounds as if you are getting reasonably accurate feedback because you're using a calibrated, high quality computer monitor. That's good.

Most likely, it's settings of your camera that are incorrect. Skin tones in portraits are especially susceptible to any skewed settings.

Get into your camera's menu and check that your 7D is set to "Faithful" Picture Style. It might be set to to something that renders a more vivid image. I don't use "Portrait" Picture Style because all it does is reduce sharpening, which I can do to taste more accurately in post-processing rather than in-camera. But if you prefer, that could be used too.

While still on the screen that sets Picture Style, press the Info button to open and display the various parameters of that particular style, which you can adjust to taste. Those are pretty self-explanatory. For now, I'd leave them zeroed out. Later you might want to tweak some of them. Alternatively, not sure about 7D, but on my 7D Mark IIs I have option to set up as many as three "user defined" custom Picture Styles. (Another way to choose and tweak these settings is with the camera tethered to your computer and Canon's Picture Style Editor app, if you have it installed.)

Next, go into the menu and open the WB Shift/Bkt. (bracket) screen... to make sure that's set to zero, too. (I've had this mysteriously get set on a camera once or twice, causing all images made with it to be skewed. I didn't set it, that I recall... and was baffled for a while, why one camera was making magenta tinted images while another identical camera I was using alongside it was rendering neutral images.)

The next thing to do is set a Custom White Balance under your particular lighting set up. This is done by photographing a white balance target under the lights, making an image which the camera then uses to establish the WB. This is MUCH more accurate than using any of the presets such as "Flash", "Daylight", "Shade", etc.... And also a lot better than using Auto WB. It's even better than setting the WB manually.... because that only effects the color temp (the cyan/yellow axis), doesn't set the color tint (magenta/green axis).

For much of my shooting I use a Lastolite EZ Balance target. Those fold up for storage, which I like.... and provide a neutral white on one side, neutral 18% gray on the other. I use the gray side because it allows me to also check the accuracy of my exposure settings, at the same time I'm setting the Custom WB.

HOWEVER, strobe and flash light often tends to be a little too bluish or "cool" for portraiture. For that type of photography, I use Warm Cards as a target to set my Custom WB. Those are sold in a set that includes a couple with light blue tint that causes the camera to skew the Custom WB toward a slightly warmer rendition, which usually looks better for portraits. (Note: The Warm Card set also has pure white, neutral gray, two cooling cards and one or two especially for fluorescent lighting.)

Of course, shooting RAW you can still make changes to all these things.... HOWEVER, the preview images you see when you play back the image on the camera's LCD (uncalibrated and influenced by ambient lighting, so not very reliable to judge color rendition or exposure accuracy) are effected by WB, Picture Style and other settings of the camera. AND, those preview images are also what you see on your computer screen initially, when you're working with the images in post-processing software. All PP s'ware I'm aware of "honors" the color temp and tint as rendered in-camera, even with RAW images (in-camera or in-computer, you're never viewing RAW directly.... that's not possible... only a preview is shown until you've converted the RAW to a usable image file type).

Unlike most other settings such as sharpening, noise reduction, etc., that's what's shown and if you let it the s'ware will use whatever color temp and tint were recorded when the image was captured. This is what you are seeing in your images, I suspect... and using the above adjustments to Picture Style and Custom White Balance, as well as making sure no WB Shift is dialed in, you should be able to get your out-of-camera image previews much closer to what you want (and still be able to change them in PP, if needed).

Finally, because you mention a yellow color cast, double check that you aren't under-exposing. You're probably aware, when that happens, images tend to look a little yellow and "muddy".

Hope this helps!

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

delete... duplicate

canon Lee

Thank you for your in-depth comments..... I have taken your suggestions..
I was not aware that shooting in RAW that the picture style was affecting the RAW capture.... I think you have hit on something about the lighting set up.... I shoot children 4~16 and the young ones have little to no face color, So I have been setting the lights to just short of the white on the histogram, assuring that the white skin doesn't blow out or have hot spots.. I will go up to the white now.... BTW, I am using the "CamRanger", which is a wifi device that takes the JPEG images to the IPAD. I do not pay attention to color content at that time, but see if the histogram indicates a histogram that is too far to the right... I do realize that the images are JPEG, and not the RAW data....
I feel that it might be the lighting that is shifting towards Yellow..
About the "custom WB settings; This is a sports club picture day shoot, which averages around 80~100 kids ... Each team averages around 10~15 kids which we need to shoot in 15 minutes to keep up the schedule...My question is; do I need to re-set the custom WB for each kid? I am aware of how to do a Custom WB setting...... I also have to reset the lighting for the groups (10~15 kids) If I need to reset the custom WB for each shot, that would be impossible time wise..... I want to use Custom WB but frankly have not done so on my shoots..

Bill_de Loc: US

It all depends on the software you are using. Adobe at one point (not sure today) ignored manufacturer proprietary settings. When you opened a photo in PhotoShop it used settings in the program that you set as default. Some programs have an "as shot" option which means it will apply settings from the camera.

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df61743 Loc: Corpus Christi, TX

When shooting RAW, white balance is not "disabled", it is ignored for the RAW image. The setting will be recorded in the EXIF meta-data, but no changes will be applied to the RAW image.
If you are shooting RAW plus JPG, the camera WILL apply your white balance setting to the JPG. That's one of the major advantages of shooting RAW in the first place. White balance may easily be applied to the image in post processing.

frankie c Loc: Lake Havasu CIty, AZ

If you are consistently getting skin tones which are not to your liking. It may be a function of the camera/or possibly come from the lighting method you are using. Different camera's/manufactures do not necessarily have white balance set exactly the same. My experience with Nikon's are the camera's generally are biased towards green. So my solution (also the recommended solution) is to fine tune the white balance in camera by adding 1 magenta to the balance. Most cameras that I am familiar with have a fine tuning adjustment in the menu system to do this. For me, once I made these adjustments skin tones were exactly where I needed them to be. Some one also mentioned color shifting due to Flash/speed light, If that is influencing your color, you can generally correct that with same method I mentioned above. Flash color varies, some are warm some cold. You could test and adjust using color targets and use a densitometer to read and measure the adjustments against a standard. My preference is to adjust based on actual captures. Good Luck :) have a great day.

canon Lee

I am getting some great feedback... The second part of my question is about what happens to my file after I edit it and send it to my color lab? What do they do with my file? Do they undo and change what I have adjusted? What does their printers ICC change to my file??? Or does their ICC adjust the printer to my settings????

Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina

Do you use a ColorChecker Passport? I would recommend you consider checking into that if you don't. Joe Brady has videos on YouTube regarding its use. Mark Wallace may also have a couple too.

Best,
Todd Ferguson

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Keep in mind that other than exposure, none of the in camera settings are "baked in" to the raw file. These are fully adjustable. If you are getting weird results, and you are doing a lot of portraits, your best alternative to getting neutral color is to use, as Todd suggested, an Xrite ColorChecker Passport. It will ALWAYS get you to a color-neutral state, and you can use the warming or cooling tiles to adjust the warmth/coolness to your personal preference. When using the ColorChecker you disregard all picture settings on your camera. Just create the profile using the software in Lightroom, restart Lightroom, and the new camera profile will be there. The ColorChecker will let you even set up a profile for different power settings, since there can be a color shift. Color casts can be coming from a multitude of sources - lights, reflectors, umbrellas, and even ambient light reflecting from the walls if you don't have good control over your light with grids, flags snoots and scrims, and the lights are too far from the subject. Get the lights close - block the light from anything other than the subject

canon Lee

Hi Gene... I hope you can clarify something I don't understand.... After I do my editing and send the image to my color lab, what does the color lab do with my file...?? Not at all sure I understand what an ICC profile does to my edited file...

canon Lee

Hi would it be acceptable if in LR I use the eyedropper to select WB if I have a gray area on the background? I cant see it being possible to do a "custom WB" for each child.... we do around 100 kids in a few hours via the schedule...

Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina

If the lighting is staying the same then you should be able to do a shot of the CCP before you start shooting and then use that which will be part of your download into LR to make a WB setting/correction to say the first portrait and then synch that to all the others as a group. Should not have to do each one individually. Burk may chime in as he has probably forgot more about shooting children portraits than I will ever know. He may also tell you that if you get the WB right with a custom WB and have consistent lighting setup you can shoot straight to JPEGs and avoid PP altogether. I find the CCP to be some of the best money I ever spent on photography after hearing about it in about 2008 and resisting it for many years I am glad I purchased it.

Best,
Todd Ferguson