In camera light meter or histogram
Apr 30, 2018 12:43:53 #
If you believe the histogram can determine exposure I ask you to take a frame with a white piece of paper and another with a black piece of paper. The histograms will look very similar and neither exposure will be correct. The white paper will be underexposed and the black paper will be overexposed. The histogram is widely and wildly misunderstood by too many photographers. It is merely a distribution of the tones in the JPEG image generated in the camera at the moment.
Best,
Todd Ferguson
Best,
Todd Ferguson
bpulv wrote:
Hi Jim,
The histogram is the best method for overall exposure determination in a digital camera, however a series of incident light meter readings can be the best way to balance the SBR (seen brightness ratio) when supplemental outdoor lighting or studio lighting is used.
The histogram is the best method for overall exposure determination in a digital camera, however a series of incident light meter readings can be the best way to balance the SBR (seen brightness ratio) when supplemental outdoor lighting or studio lighting is used.
Apr 30, 2018 13:11:59 #
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
If you believe the histogram can determine exposur... (show quote)
First of all, I don’t use the histogram to determine exposure....
However, your histograms must work different from mine: my Nikons under the same exposure and lighting conditions place the white sheet at the far right of the histogram, while the black one is to the far left.
Without getting into a pedantic discussion with the ETTR adherents, the histogram can indicate when a highlight “may” be blown. Of course, sometimes this is ok—as in specular highlights.
Since I now primarily use a mirrorless camera, I find less need for an “after the fact” review of the histogram.
Apr 30, 2018 13:39:50 #
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
If you believe the histogram can determine exposur... (show quote)
Bingo.
The histo CANNOT tell you if your exposure is correct.
Apr 30, 2018 14:05:26 #
bpulv
Loc: Buena Park, CA
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
If you believe the histogram can determine exposur... (show quote)
Todd,
I am speaking in more general terms. Photographing Black on black and white on white subjects represents working at the very extreme ends of the grey scale continuum. Determining proper exposure is somewhat different from the norm.
There is no one tool for everything. The skill is knowing when to use each and how to use them. I shoot in RAW. For the vast majority of photographers and situations in the field where there is only a choice between the LCD image and the histogram, the histogram will win out because you cannot depend on how the LCD image will compare to what you will see on a calibrated computer monitor. If the histogram is either somewhat centered or shows a decent amount of shadow detail without blown out highlights, you will usually be able to produce a quality product out of the camera or in post. Although I always have a Sekonic incident meter with me, the vast majority of todays photographers, especially non-professionals, do not. The only choice they have is the camera's LCD image or the histogram.
Apr 30, 2018 16:14:20 #
Apr 30, 2018 16:30:08 #
To get a white sheet or a black sheet to show up in the center of the histogram, which is where most proponents will tell you is correct the correct histogram look for a proper exposure, you have to incorrectly expose.
The histogram is an after the fact tool (for most) where a light meter is before the fact.
Bottom line?
Apples to oranges
The histogram is an after the fact tool (for most) where a light meter is before the fact.
Bottom line?
Apples to oranges
Apr 30, 2018 16:42:03 #
Exactly why a handheld incident meter with the dome over the lens of the meter will give you the proper exposure, ignoring whites and blacks. Stand where the subject is, and point it back at the camera. Boom, there's your proper exposure. The in camera meter will meter to 18% gray based on background and subject. The next best thing to the handheld meter is to meter off something approximately 18% gray, and the in camera spot meter.
Other than telling you that highlights are blown out, or blacks are devoid of information, you don't get proper "exposure" from the histogram.
Other than telling you that highlights are blown out, or blacks are devoid of information, you don't get proper "exposure" from the histogram.
Apr 30, 2018 17:16:27 #
My understanding is that pixels pick up more information (bits/bytes) from bright areas than dark areas. So in the case of a low contrast shot, by exposing to the right (ETTR) -without blowing the highlights - you are collecting more information than you might get by using the meter only which would tend to expose towards the center of the histogram. If that is correct aren’t you getting a ‘better’ exposure by using the histogram? Does this extra info just get ignored when you adjust the exposure back down in PP.
Feel free to enlighten me if my understanding is all wrong.
Feel free to enlighten me if my understanding is all wrong.
Apr 30, 2018 17:57:25 #
Apr 30, 2018 18:00:39 #
rpavich wrote:
Bingo.
The histo CANNOT tell you if your exposure is correct.
The histo CANNOT tell you if your exposure is correct.
of course it can’t. However, The rest of his comment was not factual: A photograph of a black sheet of paper and a white sheet of paper does not look the same on the histogram.
Apr 30, 2018 18:16:40 #
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
of course it can’t. However, The rest of his comment was not factual: A photograph of a black sheet of paper and a white sheet of paper does not look the same on the histogram.
If they are exposed using a light meter they will. In both cases the meter will expose them at middle gray.
Of course a half way knowledgeable photographer will make EC adjustments +/- to obtain the most accurate representation they can. But that isn't what we are talking about here. We are discussing what the two systems will show without adjustments
Apr 30, 2018 19:34:16 #
Rich1939 wrote:
If they are exposed using a light meter they will. In both cases the meter will expose them at middle gray.
Of course a half way knowledgeable photographer will make EC adjustments +/- to obtain the most accurate representation they can. But that isn't what we are talking about here. We are discussing what the two systems will show without adjustments
Of course a half way knowledgeable photographer will make EC adjustments +/- to obtain the most accurate representation they can. But that isn't what we are talking about here. We are discussing what the two systems will show without adjustments
Exactly!!!Apr 30, 2018 19:38:50 #
shenee wrote:
Hi I was wondering what is better to use for correct exposure .
Thanks Jim
Thanks Jim
Both. The meter can be configured to read specific parts of the scene, and the histogram does the same thing on mirrorless cameras, letting you evaluate the scene before you take the picture. On DSLR cameras, for the most part, it shows you what you did.
Apr 30, 2018 19:41:34 #
With my camera I know that I can expose for the highlights...spot meter on the brightest area of the image. That will meter as 18 percent gray. I can then open up the exposure up to 2.5 stops without fear of blowing the highlights. Keep in mind that the histogram is post shot and exposure in most DSLR modes, other than in Live View and it is based on the jpeg created by the camera. The jpeg will have less data than the RAW file which is usually a 14 bit file vs a 8 bit file for jpeg.
repleo wrote:
My understanding is that pixels pick up more infor... (show quote)
Apr 30, 2018 20:12:17 #
This description appears inaccurate: "It [the Histogram] is merely a distribution of the tones in the JPEG image generated in the camera at the moment."
As I understand the Histogram, it depicts the exposure values of a given photograph. The JPEG image represents these values.
The two together help the photographer to gain a good exposure by reading them.
As I understand the Histogram, it depicts the exposure values of a given photograph. The JPEG image represents these values.
The two together help the photographer to gain a good exposure by reading them.
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
If you believe the histogram can determine exposur... (show quote)
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