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why do you shoot raw
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Mar 16, 2018 13:44:09   #
good2gonc Loc: Greater Raleigh, NC Metro Area
 
Not to muddy any water but if I am not mistaken the D500 has 2 card slots (1-SD and 1XQD). Thus I would set the camera up to dual capture with one card for Raw and 1 card for JPG. Shoot the raw 14 bits uncompressed and the Jpg as Fine. That way you have 2 cards with the same image but different format. If one card goes bad you still have the other card and you can compare them once you get where you can see them both on a computer. I shoot raw as my main format but I have a backup JPG if I need it. Also sometimes the JPG files are good enough without any post processing. I use Adobe Lightroom and Camera Raw to work over my Raw images. I do have a Mac so I am not bothered by the glitches in Windows (just kidding)

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Mar 16, 2018 13:45:35   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
rmalarz wrote:
Which is exactly why my camera's color space selection is set to Adobe.
--Bob

Color space has no effect on raw files. Neither does white balance.
rmalarz wrote:
ADL has no effect on RAW files.
--Bob

ADL allows the camera to recover some of the highlight and shadow information much like you would when recovering that information when you develop from the raw file. If that's the only correction you need then the JPEG SOOC might be just as good as the JPEG you develop from raw. There are a cfew caveats:
- Just as good may be good enough.
- If you want to do further editing of the JPEG tonality, you need to convert to 16-bit TIFF.
- ADL is arbitrary. You can't recover highlightsor shadows separately. You may need to bracket. You may also need to adapt the level of ADL to the scene.

There are few decent JPEG-only editors but if all you need to do is crop and resize, ADL may be all you need.

While it is possible to accomplish almost the same result using ADL, it's still easier to develop from raw. At least you are starting with more than 8-bit color.

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Mar 16, 2018 13:47:31   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
Robert Velasco wrote:
Why shoot "Raw"? Over the years I have vacillated from shooting raw to shooting in jpeg. I use a Nikon D610 which produces very large Raw images. It is hard to review these pictures because my computer lack the power to do this quickly. I examined my photos and decided that I could shoot in jpeg and would not lose much...??? Why? Well, I post process using ADOBE Elements 15 and it has a Raw image processing component...


And that, Sir, is a fair and valid opinion, with a possible exception or two. So far as I am aware, Photoshop elements mostly deals with 8 bit files, so there would be little perceived difference between JPEG and raw files, the beneficial data in raw files (12, 14 or 16 bit) has already been discarded, so there is no difference left to see.

If your computer lacks power, and if you are happy with the results, then there is no problem, but that doesn't negate the value of raw format files that contain more image data.

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Mar 16, 2018 13:48:43   #
Robert Velasco
 
Why shoot "Raw"? Over the years I have vacillated from shooting raw to shooting in jpeg. I use a Nikon D610 which produces very large Raw images. It is hard to review these pictures because my computer lack the power to do this quickly. I examined my photos and decided that I could shoot in jpeg and would not lose much...??? Why? Well, I post process using ADOBE Elements 15 and it has a Raw image processing component...this means that I can open a jpeg image using this component and then "ALL" the adjustments I can make to a raw file I can make to a jpg file. This is why I reverted to shooting in jpg. Well, now I am back to shooting in raw again...why?..because the adjustments that are made to jpg images using the raw component do not result in the same quality of image as can be obtained by modifying a raw image with the raw component. Specifically, adjustments to raw files using the raw component do not "hurt" the original image. If you sharpen an image, for example, on the jpg image you will get noise with is almost impossible to adjust. With the raw image, you can soften the sharpening process and NOT get that irksome noise. What I particularly like about editing an image using raw is that you can tweak the exposure and the color temperature of an image. You can also increase exposure in shadow areas that results in a superior image rather than that which can be gotten from the shadows and highlights commands used for jpg images. What I really like is that when you process an image the raw processor records your actions and you can come back later and see what you did which is something you can not do with jpg images. Specifically I would say that raw image processing is that process you do to images as a whole unlike jpg processing where you deal with individual elements in the jpg file....for example, removing stuff from a picture that detracts. There is no clone command in raw processing. Anyway, enough said....shoot in raw and get better images...in the long run, you will be better served.

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Mar 16, 2018 14:05:25   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
The quote is, "The negative is comparable to the composer's score and the print to its performance."
--Bob
RichieC wrote:
Ansel Adams said the negative is the Score, the darkroom is the conductor... RAW is a digital negative.

Adams basically shot RAW... in fact he perfected the concept, called the zone system. It primarily captured detail in the darks and highlights and everything inbetween, the resulting negative was a tool ... He then took advantage of the resulting enhanced information and finished the photos in post processing in the darkroom, making full use of this detail. His negatives, if dropped off at Walgreens for processing- would not have been the masterpieces you see. Sometimes Walgreens (or where ever) and or your in-camera jpeg processing delivers, in your opinion, a perfect image... Then you are done and good for you! ( not sarcasm)... but jpeg should be considered the end product for many reasons.
Ansel Adams said the negative is the Score, the da... (show quote)

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Mar 16, 2018 14:08:42   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
home brewer wrote:
I know this is an old topic; but maybe I can some. I am heading to antelope canyon on a photo tour in about a month and want to make sure I get good shots. I am assuming that the raw photos will improve my chances of fixing improper exposures.

This discussion is directed to those who use raw. I have read many of the on-line explanations about raw photos having more color depth, levels of brightness and the file not degrading when it is edited. I notice for my d500 that for the same photo the jpeg is 13.9 mp (5568x3712x24b) and the raw 25.7 mb (5568x3712x48b) there does not appear to be much if any difference between the jpeg and the raw . On the screen of the 4 year old 23" PA248 ASUS the images look the same and the same for the Dell ultra sharp. Resolution is set at 1920 x 1200 for both. The color space is Adobe RGB. The shots were at iso 200, f/10, 1/100s and 18mm with auto white balance facing north on a sunny morning. The shot goes from light shade to bright sun on the trees. I shoot both raw, compressed, 14 bit and jpeg large fine.
Maybe I am missing something; but I think most of the good shots do not need postprocessing. If the shot is important I bracket expose and may change the f-stop and shutter speed.
It seems to me one shoots raw to fix shots that were incorrectly exposed.
I print my photos on an Epson Artisan 810. So far, I have not tried any shop for a larger print. The local drugs stores and other similar places do not good work.
Questions and comments
1. Should I switch to rRGB color space and why?
2. How can I tell how much brightness levels are in the photo? Is it in the histogram? The histogram for the two photos are not the same.
3. The apparent brightness in greater in the jpeg.
4. What changes do you make to most raw shots?
5. Are there good on lind articles on how to process raw photos?
6. What format do you save them in after post processing?

Thanks to all those help
I know this is an old topic; but maybe I can some.... (show quote)

I shoot RAW because it allows me to post process with a file that contains far more information than a JPEG file contains. I post process because I can recover shadows and highlights that are not recoverable from a JPEG. I use the histogram on my mirrorless camera to ensure that I don't over or under expose. The histogram also tells me if I need to take multiple exposures to capture the full dynamic range of the scene. I watch the histogram in my post processing application while making adjustments to exposure, contrast, levels, etc., to ensure I don't lose information by pushing the adjustments too far. I process in ProPhoto RGB because it has a wider color space than sRGB and Adobe RGB. When post processing, I perform adjustments in approximately the following order: Incorporate camera-based adjustments for distortion and chromatic aberration, crop and adjust horizon; adjust white balance; adjust exposure; adjust highlights and shadows; adjust white and black levels and contrast; adjust color. If necessary, I output a copy of the adjusted RAW file as a PSD file to Photoshop for adjustment of specific elements of the image and for spot removal. I then save the PSD file in Photoshop then return the file in TIFF format to my RAW processor/catalog. Then I sharpen and export a JPEG file, depending on whether I intend the file to be printed or to be viewed on a computer screen. In addition to the JPEG I output, I maintain the original RAW file and the adjustments I made in both the RAW processor and in Photoshop. I never delete or modify the original RAW file. Depending on the image, I will also save a PSD and TIFF file because those represent final documents at different stages of processing. I can process most files in a few minutes in my RAW processor. If I do additional processing in Photoshop, that takes anywhere from a few minutes to hours, depending on how I intend to use the final image.

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Mar 16, 2018 14:24:18   #
TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA
 
This seems to be a very popular topic; hence, I have not read every post. From what I have read, nobody has mentioned some very basic and pervasive distortions such as keystone (maybe you are like my wife and are blind to keystoning) that are not corrected in the camera produced jpg. You can edit the jpg to eliminate them, but then you are subjecting the image to loss of data that you cannot predict or control. If shooting raw, this is not a problem.

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Mar 16, 2018 14:25:05   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
home brewer wrote:
I know this is an old topic; but maybe I can some. I am heading to antelope canyon on a photo tour in about a month and want to make sure I get good shots. I am assuming that the raw photos will improve my chances of fixing improper exposures.

This discussion is directed to those who use raw. I have read many of the on-line explanations about raw photos having more color depth, levels of brightness and the file not degrading when it is edited. I notice for my d500 that for the same photo the jpeg is 13.9 mp (5568x3712x24b) and the raw 25.7 mb (5568x3712x48b) there does not appear to be much if any difference between the jpeg and the raw . On the screen of the 4 year old 23" PA248 ASUS the images look the same and the same for the Dell ultra sharp. Resolution is set at 1920 x 1200 for both. The color space is Adobe RGB. The shots were at iso 200, f/10, 1/100s and 18mm with auto white balance facing north on a sunny morning. The shot goes from light shade to bright sun on the trees. I shoot both raw, compressed, 14 bit and jpeg large fine.
Maybe I am missing something; but I think most of the good shots do not need postprocessing. If the shot is important I bracket expose and may change the f-stop and shutter speed.
It seems to me one shoots raw to fix shots that were incorrectly exposed.
I print my photos on an Epson Artisan 810. So far, I have not tried any shop for a larger print. The local drugs stores and other similar places do not good work.
Questions and comments
1. Should I switch to rRGB color space and why?
2. How can I tell how much brightness levels are in the photo? Is it in the histogram? The histogram for the two photos are not the same.
3. The apparent brightness in greater in the jpeg.
4. What changes do you make to most raw shots?
5. Are there good on lind articles on how to process raw photos?
6. What format do you save them in after post processing?

Thanks to all those help
I know this is an old topic; but maybe I can some.... (show quote)

The camera is a tool to capture and record light. You can record light in 8-bit JPEG format or in a 16, 14, or 12 bit RAW file. That means you capture 512, 64, or 16 time as much information in a RAW file as in a JPEG file. That is why RAW files are preferred for adjustments in post processing and result in higher quality images after post processing.

But not all photographers want to make the effort to learn how to properly process a RAW file or need more than an out-of-camera JPEG for their intended audience. These practical photographers are similar to the practical farmer who doesn't bother spend a lot of effort to cook and season slop he feeds to his pigs. Most photo viewers and most pigs wouldn't notice the difference.

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Mar 16, 2018 14:38:18   #
DanielB Loc: San Diego, Ca
 
Zoom into the Jpeg (200% or more) and you'll notice the Jaggy edges this is because Jpeg is a compressed file and you loose pixel data with it. RAW is uncompressed where every pixel is recorded and stored, thus the larger file and more ability to do finer edits and recover more detail, color and contrast in your photo's.

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Mar 16, 2018 14:59:42   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
jackpinoh wrote:
The camera is a tool to capture and record light. You can record light in 8-bit JPEG format or in a 16, 14, or 12 bit RAW file. That means you capture 512, 64, or 16 time as much information in a RAW file as in a JPEG file. That is why RAW files are preferred for adjustments in post processing and result in higher quality images after post processing.

But not all photographers want to make the effort to learn how to properly process a RAW file or need more than an out-of-camera JPEG for their intended audience. These practical photographers are similar to the practical farmer who doesn't bother spend a lot of effort to cook and season slop he feeds to his pigs. Most photo viewers and most pigs wouldn't notice the difference.
The camera is a tool to capture and record light. ... (show quote)


Pigs? Seriously! You certainly have a way with words Harvard?

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Mar 16, 2018 15:05:34   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
TheShoe wrote:
This seems to be a very popular topic; hence, I have not read every post. From what I have read, nobody has mentioned some very basic and pervasive distortions such as keystone (maybe you are like my wife and are blind to keystoning) that are not corrected in the camera produced jpg. You can edit the jpg to eliminate them, but then you are subjecting the image to loss of data that you cannot predict or control. If shooting raw, this is not a problem.

I wouldn't 'fix' keystoning if I started off with a 'raw' file; I also wouldn't 'fix' railroad tracks that seem to converge as they recede in the distance.

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Mar 16, 2018 15:10:49   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
leftj wrote:
I'm really curious about your statement that a RAW file (I assume you meant before an PP) looks better than a JPG. That is the first time I've heard that. I will have to test that out and see what I think.


I am not sure about the "before any PP" thing that people always refer to when discussing raw files. I don't know what "PP" they are talking about. Why does there need to be any post processing at all in this scenario? In nay case, I do far less post processing with raw files than I did with JPEGs and any that I do is much faster and easier than working with JPEG files.

I am comparing CR files (Canon's proprietary raw file format) as viewed in DPP (Canon's program that comes with their cameras) to JPEGs.

Keep in mind that I am not talking about theory, but rather subjective personal experience here. Others can address the technical issues. I am talking abut personal satisfaction - dramatically improved results, less time required.

Mike

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Mar 16, 2018 15:12:00   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
rehess wrote:
I wouldn't 'fix' keystoning if I started off with a 'raw' file; I also wouldn't 'fix' railroad tracks that seem to converge as they recede in the distance.

I guess some people like trees and buildings that visibly tip toward the centerline of photos. At least it is symmetric.

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Mar 16, 2018 15:13:57   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
davyboy wrote:
Pigs? Seriously! You certainly have a way with words Harvard?

Just wanted to see if anyone read my post.

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Mar 16, 2018 15:16:58   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Carusoswi wrote:
Raw files are data files, not image files. You cannot view a raw file, period. You can only view a jpeg representation (or your software's interpretation) of what the processed data will produce. When you set your camera to yield JPG images, the computer inside your camera does the processing.


I don't believe that the CR files (Canon's raw format) as viewed in DPP (Canon's program for editing their raw files) can properly be called "JPEGs." Nor do I think that PSP files, for example, viewed in Adobe programs are JPEGs. GIF files are not JPEGs, nor are PNG files nor TIFF files. Therefore, a file does not need to be displayed as a JPEG in order to be seen.

Files in all image formats need to be interpreted by software, do they not?

Mike

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