robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Click "quote reply" and there will be no question what you are replying to.

jenz Loc: Whittier, CA

Haha!

I’m an article junkie so the suggestions while a little overwhelming, give me more to read about.

It’s intersting to learn what set ups are working for the users here. Btw, I’m so happy to have stumbled on the Hog. Everyone has been welcoming and open.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Hi,

I was going to recommend the original Canon EF 100-400mm L, too... the fast action of the push/pull zoom design was quite popular for BIF, airshows and similar. It's a very good lens and weighs a little less than the "II", too (3 lb. versus 3.5 lb. approx.) The original still can sometimes be found new for around $1200.... or for $1000 or a little less used. It has fast USM focus and helpful 2-3 stop image stabilization. It's one of the short list of Canon lenses where you need to turn off IS if using it locked down on a tripod, but that's not how you'd be using it for BIF anyway.

Note: the original 100-400mm doesn't "play well" with filters. Even high quality, coated filters will cause it to make "soft" images. A lot of long-time users of the lens were stunned to learn how much sharper their lens was was after they removed the "protection" filter they'd had on it from new! So if you get one, use it without any filter.

Both the 100-400mm are "good light" lenses.... f/4.5 at 100mm to 129mm, f/5 from 130 to 259mm and f/5.6 from 260mm to 400mm. (The "II" maintains f/5 to 300mm and is a bit closer focusing... nice, but relatively minor improvements that likely won't matter for BIF).

Some other Canon lenses you might find in your price range (used in some cases) include: EF 70-300mm f/3.5-5.6"L" IS USM (a bit smaller and lighter than the 100-400mm), EF 300mm f/4"L" IS USM (faster aperture, also works well with EF 1.4X II or III teleconverter, to act as a 420mm f/5.6 with IS), EF 400mm f/5.6L USM (this lens doesn't have IS) or the less expensive and EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM II ($500 new, smaller and lighter) or the earlier version EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM (still avail new for around $380). These last two non-L are a lot smaller and don't have t'pod rings or means of installing them. Especially at their longest 300mm focal length, they also don't have quite as good image quality as the L-series.

You can compare image quality of any two of these lenses side-by-side at https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=972&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=1&LensComp=113&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=7&APIComp=0

Many of these lenses have tripod mounting rings that are handy at time, but are removable to lighten them a little while shooting hand held.

Note that all these lenses have fast USM autofocus, which is important to be able to rapidly acquire focus and track BIF. STM lenses and especially micro motor lenses wouldn't be up to the task. Third party lenses... it's hard to say but Sigma's HSM and Tamron's USD are supposed to offer similar performance to Canon's USM.

IMO, the 150-600mm lenses (various models from Sigma and Tamron) are simply too long focal length and too big/heavy for much BIF shooting. They're about 4.5 lb. minimum. Particularly on an APS-C camera like 7DII, I just don't see the need for much more than 300 or 400mm for BIF (Note: BIT "birds in trees" and BIW "birds in water" are another matter entirely... they certainly can require longer lenses!)

I have not used either the new Tamron or Sigma 100-400mm.... But from what I've seen it appears the Sigma has very good image quality, pretty similar to the Canon EF 100-400mm II. It's smaller, but at 2.5 lb. only slightly lighter than the original Canon. I don't like that it doesn't have or even offer option of fitting a tripod mounting ring. It would be pretty poorly balanced to use this lens on a camera on a tripod or monopod using the camera's mounting point. The Tamron 100-400mm doesn't appear to be quite as sharp in the corners of image, but it does offer the option of using with a tripod mounting ring (which I would want... though it weighs about the same as the Canon original by the time you add that, I'm sure). The Sigma and Tamron also are f/6.3 at 400mm... in fact the Tamron drops to f/5.6 at 180mm and the Sigma does at only 110mm (in other words it's just BARELY f/5!) The Canon 100-400s are both 1/3 to 2/3 stops faster throughout their range... the original maintains f/5 to 280mm and the "II" does to 312mm, if memory serves.

Image below of redtail hawk was shot with Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS USM on full frame camera (equiv. to approx. 200mm on a 7DII), some slight cropping was done....



OTOH, image of western grebe below was shot with Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS USM with EF 1.4X teleconverter on APS-C camera...

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Yes, it was not so long ago that the same people were saying Canon was DOA and the only way to go was Samsung!
And all the Amatuers were doing shootout tests!!!
Remember that?!?!
I just hope not TOO many fools fell for it!!!!
SS

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Neither is driving the family sedan!!!
SS

jenz Loc: Whittier, CA

Go figure.. when I started, I swore I would do portraits, but after a while, found that birds and wildlife are much more my style.

It’s not cheap, that’s for sure.

jenz Loc: Whittier, CA

I had a feeling that the 7dii would be a stepping stone while I’m still learning. Looks like I’ve come to the right place though :)

jenz Loc: Whittier, CA

Got it thanks! Can you tell I’m new to online forums?! Lol!!

jenz Loc: Whittier, CA

In your opinion would the changes made from the 100-400 version 1 to the 2 be noticeable for someone at my level? I understand the push/pull change, but are the other upgrades something that would make critical differences to a learner?

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

The v II is sharper, the IS is more advanced, it focuses faster alone and is much more effective with the 1.4x III. The new lens does nothing to characteristics of the original model. But, there are both subtle and clear differences between the two, some more obvious in the handling than the images.

u4ea

Hi Robert,

Can you tell me what pistol grip brand and model you are using?

Thanks!

u4ea

foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC

at this rate you'll still be looking next year LOL

jenz Loc: Whittier, CA

Hahaha!! By then the 100-400 mkiii will be a thing.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

I have two. My oldest was only $10 and doesn't even have a brand name on it (I think it was a Barska). The newer is marked Moboto and was about $15. On Amazon (or ebay) they have many brands and many of those look alike. Probably just a couple of factories in China making them with dozens of brand names put on. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=camera+pistol+grip The first and third ones on this page look like my Moboto. It does seem to be a bit sturdier than the older one, at least it will screw on tighter and doesn't work loose as easy.*

I also came up against the problem of using the Red Dot to find distant subjects and use my flash (sometimes with better beamer) for subjects far off in poor light. They sell hot shoe splitters that will hold the Red Dot and the flash (or remote trigger) at the same time. A bit awkward at times but with experience I made the rig work. see pic below http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=hotshoe+splitter&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahotshoe+splitter

The Red Dot sights (if you get that far) are available in many brands, styles and prices. The cheapest work fine on a camera since they don't need to stand up to the recoil of a gun. One of mine was $19 and the other $24 (it has red and green color reticle choices, the older one red only).
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_13?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=red+dot+sight&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ared+dot+sight
Both mine are like the first ones on this page, different names on them.

Since the sights were made to mount on guns you need an adapter for a hot shoe. MT Shooter here on the UHH (Carter's Camera Cottage) sells a very good one for $29 or so. He also is the US Distributor for the Nest Gimbal Head** - I use a Nest head and tripod.

*They do make ones with plugs for shutter releases on the grip. http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Handheld-Pistol-Tripod-Control/dp/B00985TO96

** Any Nest Gimbal heads you find elsewhere are either re-sales or they bought them out of the country (gray market).

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