Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

Three quotes from the manifesto:

striving to define photography as an art form by simple and direct presentation through purely photographic methods.

Pure photography is defined as possessing no qualities of technique, composition or idea, derivative of any other art form.

believe that photography, as an art form, must develop along lines defined by the actualities and limitations of the photographic medium, and must always remain independent of ideological conventions of art and aesthetics that are reminiscent of a period and culture antedating the growth of the medium itself.

The first quote reference "purely photographic methods". To me that opened the door to push and pull developing, dodging and burning and a whole host of manipulation that is purely photographic.

The second quote baffles me. "no qualities of technique, composition or idea, derivative of any other art form." Composition or idea being my stumbling point. Obviously that part had to be ignored in the work of the members.

The third quote also throws a curve ball to my thinking; "must always remain independent of ideological conventions of art and aesthetics that are reminiscent of a period and culture antedating the growth of the medium itself." If the members actually followed those ideals they would have predated the drop out generation by about 30 years.
We see in much of their work conventions and aesthetics, composition and lighting that reflect many of those used in the world of painting(at a minimum).

Getting back to the point about manipulation, as long as it was done photographically sure leaves a whole lot of wiggle room.

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

A convention of pictorialism was to make photographs more artistic by making if them ore like paintings, drawings and etchings. Soft focus, softness and low contrast were in vogue rather that the tack sharp, heavy shadow, high contrast work of many of the f/64 photographers.

In pictorialism photographers would often manipulate the image by combination printing for the sky or draw clouds on the negative.

https://eastman.org/event/workshops/glass-negative-retouching-image-manipulation-photoshop

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

I'm familiar with pictoialism and like much of it. The quoted line said "any other" art form, that would really confine their work and baffles me.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

A fair point, but you didn't start them all. The ban on photo manipulation is an interesting news story about CVS and is really about truth in advertising and the effect of the objectification of women. A different but related topic in my mind is the guy that objected to Lily Cole being given a role as a creative partner by the Bronte Society. So she's a model and an actress, she also has a double first in history of art from Cambridge. They do not get given out for nothing.

Nick Holland has now quit the Bronte Society in "disgust" that the Bronte Patronage Museum has recruited Cole as its "creative partner". Holland issued an angry denunciation: "What would Emily Bronte think if she found that the role of chief 'artist' and organiser in her celebratory year was a supermodel? "Anyone who doesn't isn't fit to make the decision or have any role in the governance of the Bronte Society. The very basic rule should have been that the person chosen for such an important role as creative partner is a writer."

But as Nick Pettigrew revealed: "Lily Cole has a double first Arts degree from Cambridge. Nick Holland went to Huddersfield University. If you're trying intellectual snobbery, mate, you're on shaky ground."

Cole herself pointed out: "Emily Bronte, whose extraordinary novel Wuthering Heights has stirred the world for over 150 years, published her work under an androgynous pseudonym: Ellis Bell. Now I find myself wondering, fleetingly, if I should present the short film I am working on for the Bronte Parsonage Museum under a pseudonym myself, so that it will be judged on its own merits, rather than on my name, my gender, my image or my teenage decisions."


http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42564230 ,
http://www.telegraphindia.com/world/supermodel-in-bronte-row-198990 , http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2011/10/26/lily-cole-liberated-to-graduate-from-cambridge-3120

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I am a commercial photographer- that's what I do for a living. I never aspire to become a famous nature or landscape photographer so why, during my student days and early career, make it my business to take in two Ansel Adams workshops and read and study all of his books and also study the work of Minor White and other practitioners of the Zone System. I was not interested in manipulating images beyond reality or creating bizzare special effects not did I feel that every photograph needed to be clinically accurate or or docuimentry in content. I just wanted to take control of the process to the best of my ability so that I could produce whatever kind of imagery that I was interested in producing. There were many great photographers whose work I admired but at the time Adams was one of the few that openly shared his techniques in finite detail in his teachings, classes and books. Some of my favorite photographers were dead, some were simply NOT accessible to young aspiring kids like I was at the time and many of the top professionals liked to keep "secrets" and tended to operate very close to their chests. Some of the "stars" would offer lectures and speeches at camera clubs and associating conventions but the would never get into the technical details and just boast of their sessions or encounters with celebrities or their big assignments but never mention an f/stop, a shutter speed or a process. Adans was the REAL DEAL- he could teach as well as he could shoot! He could certain inspire folks to apply themselves and instill a work ethic in guys like me.

There is so much "mythology" surrounding Adams and many of his contemporaries. I watched him work in his darkroom making prints and photo-murals. There was no trickery, outrageous effects or affectations or out of the box manipulations, just good solid, sound, consistent and repeatable photographic technique and methodology.Yes, there were lots of steps and logical improvements to the process such as pre-soaking of film, careful attention to exposure and relative development, compression and expansion of the tonal range of films and masterful and craftsman-like printing methods. The zone system was nothing more that really understand the gray scale, the charactics of the materials and taking control over what we now call dynamic range or gradation of tone.

So folks...what did I take away from my workshops and reading. I did not go home and back to my studio and adopt the ZONE SYSTEM in every detail. I did however, at the time, place his overlay over my Weston meter's calculator dial to take the zones into consideration. I adopted methods that boiled down to underexposure and over development or overexposure underdevelopment combined with some pre-soaking to facilitate increase or decrease of contrast respectively.

Anyone who is really experienced or knowledgeable in traditional darkroom procedures must realize that routine dodging (holding back) burning in (local) additive exposure during printing), cropping, flashing, and some local use of concentrated developers or bleaches during print processing are not meant to manipulate the theme or content of any image - usually just to bring things into a normal range of detail or to emphasize or subdue varios tonal elements- not to fool anyone or misrepresent anything. There aforementioned procedures should no be confused with radical retouching, airbrushing of prints, montage printing, extreme special effects or purposeful artistic manipulation. Eve if the photographer is after total documentary photographic reproduction of any person place or object, it is not always possible to accomplish that right out of the camera- sometimes things need to be tweaked in the darkroom or nowadays on the computer.

What I learned for Adams, served me well in my black and white work for many years and has also extended into my color and digital processes as well. Even in rather mundane work like creating wedding formal portraits with detail in white gowns and black formal wear. if the negatives or files are made with care and attention to range, print becomes fast and easy. Sometimes industrial work entail shooting machinery in a dark factory or mill and recording detail of equipment that is outside of a window in the same shot. Understanding tonal compression makes that a relatively easy chore. Understand the results obtainable for various kinds of enlarger lamp-housing type such as diffusion, cold light condenser and point light sources was part of the teaching. He worked with a horizontal track mounted 8x10 enlarger for mural work and just about did a dance in the light path to do his burning and dodging- a sight I will never forget and remember fondly!

As for Adam's camera techniques, again, no monkey business- just straight good work! He was a stickler for good clean camera technique careful image management. He made his own lens shades to maximize flare prevention prevention. He would create a shade that was just shot of vignetting and the cut it back- just so. The need for filter is proper panchromatic interpretation was emphasized, multiple meter readings to examine each zone, noting outrageous or trickey!

I never aspired to be an Adams clone or a disciple- I was just sought to learn my trade from a grand master who knew exactly what he was doing and teaching. I never got into to politics of the f/64 group- most of that was before my time. Surprisingly enough, I also loved and studied the work of William Mortensen- the diametric opposite of the Adams school of thought- talk about MANIPULATION!!! i never got into paper negatives but I do get into some soft focus and had a very complete collection of Mortensen kinda texture screen in my long gone black and white darkroom. Nowadays, some of that stuff is still available on the TOPAZ plug in. That would be a good topic for another thread!

Gotta get back to work now- I got a small product shoot and my wife says I have to take out the garbage- some "master photographer" I have become- SEE! Good thing I studied with the best!

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

Thanks E.L. Shapiro for a great essay.

TheDman Loc: USA

manipulate /məˈnipyəˌlāt/ verb: handle or control (a tool, mechanism, etc.), typically in a skillful manner.

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

Adams also had a memory for the images he created, even many years after. He wanted to portray the scene as he saw and felt it, and sometimes that was beyond the camera's ability. "Moonrise" is a great example; he took the picture in 1941, but it wasn't until the 70's that he got a print that satisfied him.

bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.

Today , being great with photoshop seems more important than being a good photographer. MY wife brings me images all the time, I look at it and ask her when did you ever see something look like that, its Photo shopped. Ansel Adams had a great eye and his manipulation was minor, especially when you look at todays pix.

RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia

I disagree. - most of my images may need a tweak, but that's about it,unless i want to take it a lot futher or do a b&w conversion or a subtle hdr or panorma.
You do need something half decent to start with.

Bill_de Loc: US

I pass on a lot of long threads, but always look forward to the ones you write. This one did not disappoint.

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TheDman Loc: USA

Was being great in the darkroom more important than being a good photographer back in the day?

tdekany Loc: Oregon

I have a feeling that you may have a copy of this book. Check out the price of it on eBay!

tdekany Loc: Oregon

Honest to god, I’m not sure where you spend your time looking at pictures. You can’t make a winner out of a snapshot.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

To those who read my long posts and make kind remarks or even critiques - thanks for the feedback... it's always encouraging.

I always felt that good camera work and image management go hand in hand with careful and expert darkroom work for good photographic results- same applies to digital photography and good sound processing technique.

My darkroom experience has always been in studios that emphasized efficient, economical and timely production. Photographers were expected to produce consistent well exposed and composed negatives so as to facilitate easy high quality printing. All of the new guys and gals, the rookies and trainees, always started off in the darkroom where we quickly learned the advantages of good camera work. Careless photographers were not kept on staff if they did not correct their ways. In my first studio job we produced hundreds of wedding photographs, a fairly high volume of portraits and commercial prints in large quantities. When a photographer's work became erratic or inconsistent, we had to go through all kinds of remedial steps to produce decent prints and our bosses considered that unacceptable.

By the time were were in the studio or out on assignments actually shooting, we had already learned so many lessons and form good habits. The motto was; "we don't want to have to re-shoot anybody's job in the darkroom. So the darkroom was a place where good negatives were enhanced by fine printing methods not resurrected with emergency measures. When I made the transition into digital photography, we did not miss a beat. Our goal was to make good files and maximize their quality on the computer, not have to bring the back form the dead. i never want to have to re-shoot a job on the computer.

Of course, even the best photographers can make a mistake on the odd job or the odd shot. Every now and again, back in the day, we had to get out the intensifiers and reducers and get "Houdini " a nick name we had for our most experienced master printer, to work his magic and save the day. You haven't had a bad darkroom day until you had to dodge, burn and bleach the dickens out of a couple of hundred prints for a wedding album, make endless test prints and cuss all the way through the tedium.

To me, sloppy shooting and massive post processing is poor economy and leads to lesser quality. It's good to know that post processing is there to help with problematic files but I don't want to make a habit of that.