Shutterbug57

This thread assumes a familiarity with the Zone System promulgated by Ansel Adams and his crowd. There is no doubt that Adams identified an outstanding way to parse the light data in a shot so that he could make informed decisions about how to expose a shot.

To take advantage of the Zone System, what tool(s) do you use?
- built in spot meter
- separate dedicated spot meter
- combination spot & incidence meter
- SLR spot meter to meter for a camera without a meter
- something else

If you use a separate spot meter, do you have it calculate the EVs or do you have it present exposure data (shutter & aperture)? I am very much interested in how y’all are addressing the Zone System.

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

Here are several articles from Alan Ross about the Zone System including how it can be used with digital.

https://www.alanrossphotography.com/category/tech/zonesystemandmetering/

Alan was one of Adams assistants and still prints from Adams' negatives for the Adams Yosemite Collection. I had the chance to study with him a few years ago.s

As for me, I use a Pentax Spotmeter V with my medium and larger form film cameras. I meter shadow for Zone III or IV and then meter highlights for Zone VII. If the scene falls within these parameters I develop my film as normal. If the highlights fall outside the scene I lower my development time accordingly. If the highlights fall within the scene but are two dark I extend my development time accordingly.

Here is the chart on the meter that helps me determine the exposure for the tones desired.

https://www.google.com/search?q=zone+vi+spotmeter&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS720US720&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8iozW9dLYAhUc24MKHVepBpMQ_AUICigB&biw=1274&bih=655#imgrc=NeGzIb2lzFz2OM:

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I use TZS almost exclusively for large format and digital. It just works 180 degrees different between them. We know the meter will read whatever it's pointed at to be Zone V. For digital, I meter the brightest part of the scene and simply increase the exposure to place that part of the scene in the Zone I wish to place it. I will handle the darker Zones in processing. This can be done with either a handheld meter or the spot meter in camera.

The three handheld meters I use most are Sekonic L758DR, S.E.I. Photometer, Pentax Spotmeter V.

To answer your question regarding EV, I use a program, expodev, which allows for the entry of EV values. Otherwise, I'd use a combination of ISO for basic f/stop and ft-candles for basic shutter speed.
--Bob

BebuLamar

If you talk about the Zone system as per Ansel Adams then
1. No incident meter is used.
2. AA doesn't use EV.
3. One can use any spot meter but AA obviously didn't have any built in spot meter in any of his cameras.

cytafex Loc: Clarksburg MA

The meter depends on the camera that is used and situation at hand. For instance with large format, I'd use a reflected spot meter or in the case of Sinar, spot film plane readings. I don't like to rely on incidence readings as the measure the amount light falling on a subject, not reflecting from the subject, but any port in a storm! More important than what meter used is how it's used and the idea is to determine readings from important shadow and highlights in the image in relation to an established level by calibrating camera/system. A good book, the Zone System Manual by Minor White is the clearest writing on the subject in my opinion and get you up and running if you do the homework.

Shutterbug57

True, but Adams might well have liked a Sekonic 758 which is a combo meter. You can use the spot meter part separately from the incident meter part.

Shutterbug57

I have been using the built in meter on my DSLRs and N90s. I also have a Mamiya 645 that is totally manual, i.e., no meter. I have been using a DSLR or N90s spot meter with the Mamiya, but that is a hassle. I have a Sekonic L358 (lacks a spot meter) that I am thinking of selling and buying a Sekonic 558, 758 or 858. I am just curious what this august body uses.

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

Are you shooting film? If no, then the Zone System application applies to post production, no in camera exposure. See Blake Rudis' Zone System tutorials.

Shutterbug57

Tri-X or Hp5 in my Mamiya 645 & Nikon D90s. Digital-chip in my D70s, D200 & D500. I will look at your reference.

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

From what I have learned (not too well) from AA's teachings, the only use of a spot meter would be to locate the bases (brightest highlight, deepest shadow, medium tone) of a scene in order to make sure that these areas (especially the first two) fall within the limits of the dynamic range of the medium, thus facilitating post production adjustment.

pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY

What is wrong with trusting your camera's meter AND histogram in the rev screen to make sure you stay within the goal posts. Just like Ansel did, you will be post processing. If in doubt, bracket, but capture what you need on the sensor and in the raw file so you can tease out most or all of the zones.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Very simply, any, well the vast majority, of light meters read the amount of light and provide an exposure that will render what is measured in Zone V. Thus, it is easy to "fool" a light meter. If one is taking a portrait and the subject is wearing a white shirt/blouse, the meter will tend to give a reading that will produce an underexposed image. Conversely, if black is predominantly present in the scene, the result will be overexposure. Additionally, the histogram is produced by analyzing the jpg produced in camera from the image data. Thus, it is possible to expose past where the histogram shows overexposure and still produce a quite suitable image.

Almost all of my images over the past 2-3 years are exposed in such a manner, and this renders "chimping" useless. However, this requires one to use RAW and do sufficient testing to determine the camera's actual high-end cutoff point.
--Bob

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

My use of the zone system is very simple. In most of my photography which includes nature, wildlife, landscape, cityscapes etc, my goal is to avoid blown highlights, so I meter the brightest part of my scene in which I want to mretain detail, add 1 to 1-2/3 stops to the reading. When shooting portraits, my goal in addition to not having blown areas, I strive for good exposure balance, so I will read the face and add or subtract exposure from the reading based on complexion. I am comfortable doing this with a hand-held spot meter - I used to own a Pentax and later a Minolta analog spot meters, but now with the cameras offering spot-meter-like functionality, I am happy to use that and not have to carry another piece of gear in my bag.

With negative film I did the opposite. I would meter for the dark areas in the scene, which would show up as thin areas in the negatives, and subtract 2-3 stops from the reading. This would ensure that only the deepest, darkest shadows would be totally black.

Incident meters, while quite good, are best used when you have total control over lighting, as in a movie set, studio, etc. An example of where it would be completely impractical to use incident metering is when you are on the shore of a lake under the canopy of trees, the sky has clouds that obscure the sunlight periodically, and a Great White Egret flies from it's cover in the reeds into your field of view. It is not possible to read the light falling on the subject at the time of exposure, so incident meters can't work in those situations. But in a studio setting they are essential, and better for setting lighting ratios, determining proper exposures, etc.

Shutterbug57

Well, if you are shooting 10 stop scene with 8 stop film/sensor, it is nice to know what the upper and lower 2 stop zones are so you can make decisions. The decision may be to go HDR, but there are other options. Without info, such revisions are guesswork.

It is interesting that you mentioned Adams and bracketing in your post. From a BBC interview with Adams in 1983 Adams stated - "Bracketing just shows your insecurity…it means you don't know what you're doing!"

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

An excellent guide to using the zone system is “The Practical Zone System for Film And Digital Ohotography” by Chris Johnson 4th Ed. Chris Johnson studied with Ansel Adams, Imogene Cunningham, and Wynn Bullock and later served as a Professor of Photography at The California College of the Arts.

The book has a great deal of information on exposure for digital photography using the Zone System.