How do I eliminate noise: When shooting without flash in low light conditions (in a church with high ceilings and lights at least 15 feet from floor), what can I do to eliminate or at...

blazerneon Loc: Colorado

When shooting without flash in low light conditions (in a church with high ceilings and lights at least 15 feet from floor), what can I do to eliminate or at least greatly reduce noise? I'm shooting with a Canon Rebel T6i and usually a Canon 28-135 f5.6 IS ultrasonic lens. Someone suggested a tripod, but I don't understand what that would do to eliminate noise. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Lin

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

A tripod will allow you to use a longer shutter setting allowing for a lower ISO giving you less noise. The lens you have is pretty slow, necessitating a higher ISO to get the right exposure.
Are you shooting people in the church or just the interior?

blazerneon Loc: Colorado

Subject is usually pastor and other people participating in church service, i.e. soloists, musicians, speakers. Thanks for the explanation about the tripod, that clears up that issue for me.

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

You need a faster lens probably a 2.8 at least. I have the same lens but I do not try to use it in low light. A tripod will not help noise but will help if you are hand holding and do not have steady hands. Will they let you use a flash? You could probably do alright with a flash but not ideal at a church. A full frame camera will also help as they handle iso better. It cost money to get that little extra, I went to a full frame this past summer and one of the reason was what you are asking about.

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

blazerneon wrote:

Subject is usually pastor and other people participating in church service, i.e. soloists, musicians, speakers. Thanks for the explanation about the tripod, that clears up that issue for me.

A longer exposure time is going to give you some subject motion blur, and there’s not much that will help that other than a faster lens and/or higher ISO. I use Photoshop options to reduce the noise. There are some good plug-in programs that reduce noise as well. I’ve had good luck with Noise Ninja in the past. Not sure if that’s still available .

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

blazerneon wrote:

When shooting without flash in low light conditions (in a church with high ceilings and lights at least 15 feet from floor), what can I do to eliminate or at least greatly reduce noise? I'm shooting with a Canon Rebel T6i and usually a Canon 28-135 f5.6 IS ultrasonic lens. Someone suggested a tripod, but I don't understand what that would do to eliminate noise. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Lin

A product such as DxO Photolab Professional Elite version has a tool called Prime Noise removal that can remove noise without much image degradation.

Another option is to take a number of images (static scenes only) and to stack them for noise reduction. PhotoAcute has sold such a package which today is no longer being updated, but I believe it is still available. Also, Franzis Denoise Projects 2 Professional has provisions for stacking images to reduce noise. Photoshop also has this ability. A newer method in Photoshop is to use Smart object Stacking. And older manual method can also work, but is more manual work. Affinity has this ability too. You can google the topic to find You Tube examples.

Here is a text description using Photoshop Smart Objects:
https://www.pointsinfocus.com/learning/digital-darkroom/photoshop-smart-object-stacking-noise-reduction/

If you have moving objects/people in the image, stacking is not such a good way to go, and DxO would be better.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

The ideas on new equipment (a faster lens or a tripod) are fine. But, until you invest in more equipment (as well as afterward with Canon DSLRs), you should shoot in RAW and expose as far to the right as possible. Then, process the RAW files initially with DPP. You can also look at 3rd party noise processing software like Topaz DeNoise v6.

Overall, expose at the lowest ISO possible for the composition. A long exposure at a low ISO on a stable tripod of a moving subject, well that's not a valid combination ... If you're maxed at the 135 zoom when shooting, look at the prices for a used 135 f/2L. You'll love this lens. A cheaper option might be the 100 f/2. You can shoot at a distance wide open with either of these very sharp lenses. Then, employ RAW, ETTR, and noise processing.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

GoofyNewfie wrote:

A tripod will allow you to use a longer shutter setting allowing for a lower ISO giving you less noise. The lens you have is pretty slow, necessitating a higher ISO to get the right exposure.
Are you shooting people in the church or just the interior?

Now that you have identified the type of photography, stacking won't work. And the lens is just too slow.

1. Lenses -- Some lenses are much better at low light. They are considered "fast" lenses and have f-stop numbers such as f2.8, and even lower such as f1.8 or even f1.4. The really good lenses are also very sharp wide open, but some fast lenses are not so sharp wide open.

2. Cameras -- Not all cameras are created equal for low light. For instance, the Sony A7Sii or its predecessors can shoot in very dark conditions at very high ISO values (ISO 6400 and even much higher) and produce very good results. Most cameras can't compete with them under these conditions.

3. Tripod -- a must for your conditions, and use a remote shutter release.

4. Be as close as you can get so you can use a shorter focal length. A longer focal length will exagerate movement.

5. Process the images with noise reducing SW such as DxO.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

CHG_CANON wrote:

The ideas on new equipment (a faster lens or a tri... (show quote)

👍👍 Good advice.

tdekany Loc: Oregon

CHG_CANON wrote:

The ideas on new equipment (a faster lens or a tri... (show quote)

Would you explain how ettr is helpful with moving subjects? The more you expose to the right, the higher the iso is going to be, which is what’s the OP’s issue.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Use surface blur, limit its impact onto the dark area where the noise is using a mask then use the blend mode then use opacity. You will be surprised on how easy it is to kill noise w/o messing the sharpness of an image. You can use a similar process to eliminate tiny specular highlights.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

tdekany wrote:

Would you explain how ettr is helpful with moving subjects? The more you expose to the right, the higher the iso is going to be, which is what’s the OP’s issue.

Here's a recent example. Shot at ISO-5000, f/11 and 1/60 @ 437mm (100-400L II + 1.4x III). I was panning the duck in low light. Even at f/11 the tail has a bit of blur, maybe motion, maybe out of the DoF. This link doesn't let you zoom 100% on the details, but hopefully the image clearly is not a noisey mess ...

http://drscdn.500px.org/photo/234453427/m%3D900/v2?user_id=8097963&webp=true&sig=9f5955732054d29472846edb57b8a126db38c225136baa72e2641970b9eaa7ff

(The image shows a bit larger if you click on the image and launch the larger version from the 500px host site.)

tdekany Loc: Oregon

CHG_CANON wrote:

Here's a recent example. Shot at ISO-5000, f/11 an... (show quote)

While a nice shot, I’m not sure that it is helpful with what the OP is complaining about.

A church is going to have a lot less light and his camera may be much worse at iso 5000 than yours.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

tdekany wrote:

While a nice shot, I’m not sure that it is helpful with what the OP is complaining about.

A church is going to have a lot less light and his camera may be much worse at iso 5000 than yours.

Although I agree this is not apples to shooting in churches at distance in low light .... but processing for noise on a Canon EOS DSLR relies on the same fundamentals referenced above ....

The OPs current lens is 2-stops wider at 135mm than this example at f/11. If the several suggestions for a faster lens (including mine) are pursued, there's an opportunity for a 2- to 3-stop performance improvement for light gathering. Let's say the OP mounted a 135L (or 100mm f/2) to their T6i, they might have opportunities to then balance a DOF with the shutter and ISO. Maybe f/4 at ISO-800 and 1/200 is the best balance for their shooting situation. The Rebel model might not offer the discrete ISO settings of my 5DIII making ISO-1000 a non-option. But, slowing the shutter to 1/160 might capture more light into the RAW without adding blur from subject movement.

BTW - you asked for an example of the EOS noise processing / high ISO image capture, not an example from the OP's specific set-up from their shooting situation ....

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

blazerneon wrote:

I'm shooting with a Canon Rebel T6i and usually a Canon 28-135 f5.6 IS ultrasonic lens. Someone suggested a tripod, but I don't understand what that would do to eliminate noise. Any ideas?

Lin

A Tripod would not eliminate noise, just camera shake and allow longer exposures.

What ISO are you shooting at?