B&W Ruminations - Why T-Max et. al.
Dec 27, 2017 07:39:28 #
Cletus
Loc: Mongolia
Well, grain used to be a fact of life. ISO 400 ... up to maybe 1600 if you push-processed ... came with more graininess. That's just how it was, like snow in winter.
Now, graininess is just another "look" you can dial in when or if you want it. I use one of the simplest post-processing apps, the Mac OS Photos that I got for free with my computer. Even that lets me add grain when I feel like it.
Now, graininess is just another "look" you can dial in when or if you want it. I use one of the simplest post-processing apps, the Mac OS Photos that I got for free with my computer. Even that lets me add grain when I feel like it.
Dec 27, 2017 07:58:06 #
T-Max came about as Kodak attempted to reduce the grainy appearance of black and white films. The crystal structure within the emulsion was changed and thus reduced the grainy appearance of Tri-X. I tried T-Max films on several occasions, but never really liked the appearance of the final images. I stayed with Kodak films, mostly Plus-X and Tri-X until they quit making them in the formats I used. Instead of switching piecemeal to some formats being Kodak and some Ilford, I switched to Ilford for all my films.
--Bob
--Bob
Shutterbug57 wrote:
First off, this is not a film is better than digit... (show quote)
Dec 27, 2017 07:59:15 #
John, T-Max film has not been around longer than digital.
--Bob
--Bob
JohnSwanda wrote:
T-max film has been around longer than digital, so they aren't trying to mimic digital or draw in digital shooters. Some B&W film shooters just prefer minimal grain. Myself, I prefer good old Tri-X to Tmax 400. If you really love grain, try the Tmax 3200.
Dec 27, 2017 08:31:11 #
I always use HP5 when I can get it, with Tri-X as my backup. I use it in my TLR.
Dec 27, 2017 08:53:18 #
I have not shot film in a while. When I was using film my favorite was Tri-X followed by T-Max 100, the latter was always a nightmare to develop till I found Rodinal, the developer made by Agfa. From there on things changed for me.
Tri-X with HC-110 Solution B was magic. I kind of perfected development of the film to the point that grain was practically non-existent. I used the Zone System of exposure and it took me a considerable amount of time and testing to find the proper exposure for the film and the right development time. From there on my images became totally different.
Digital is a different story. We do not have to develop anything and in general color images are converted to monotone. Very good software is available to make conversion with parameters we never thought would be available to us when using the optical darkroom. Unless we go to high ISO, grain (noise) is non existent.
I still like film but it is becoming less and less practical to use it. The majority of film photographers have converted to digital.
I still have b&w and color negative film in my freezer. Perhaps it is about time to use them.
Tri-X with HC-110 Solution B was magic. I kind of perfected development of the film to the point that grain was practically non-existent. I used the Zone System of exposure and it took me a considerable amount of time and testing to find the proper exposure for the film and the right development time. From there on my images became totally different.
Digital is a different story. We do not have to develop anything and in general color images are converted to monotone. Very good software is available to make conversion with parameters we never thought would be available to us when using the optical darkroom. Unless we go to high ISO, grain (noise) is non existent.
I still like film but it is becoming less and less practical to use it. The majority of film photographers have converted to digital.
I still have b&w and color negative film in my freezer. Perhaps it is about time to use them.
Dec 27, 2017 08:59:25 #
rmalarz wrote:
John, T-Max film has not been around longer than digital.
--Bob
--Bob
It was around before large numbers of people started using digital. The OP speculated that Kodak came up with T-max to mimic the look of low noise digital. There weren't enough people using digital at the time for that to be true. They developed it for people who wanted finer grained film. I know I used it several years before I thought digital was good enough (or affordable enough) to compete with film.
Dec 27, 2017 09:39:56 #
rmalarz wrote:
John, T-Max film has not been around longer than digital.
--Bob
--Bob
Bob, T-max was introduced in the mid 80's. Which digital cameras were available then?
Dec 27, 2017 09:41:09 #
For digital photographers, both Adobe Photoshop and third-party vendors resolve this matter, by way of filters and adjustments that emulate the look of film.
Shutterbug57 wrote:
First off, this is not a film is better than digit... (show quote)
Dec 27, 2017 09:49:43 #
Rich, the first digital camera was invented in 1975. It was invented by Steve Sasson an engineer. This predates T-Max by some 10 years.
Oh, do you know who Steve worked for at the time he invented the first digital camera? ...............Kodak. Yup, Kodak invented the digital camera in 1975.
--Bob
Oh, do you know who Steve worked for at the time he invented the first digital camera? ...............Kodak. Yup, Kodak invented the digital camera in 1975.
--Bob
Rich1939 wrote:
Bob, T-max was introduced in the mid 80's. Which digital cameras were available then?
Dec 27, 2017 09:51:55 #
That's the interesting part of digital users. They don't like grain. Grain is a way of life. The biggest problem, I think, is the psychological aspect of calling it by its electrical engineering name...noise.
--Bob
--Bob
Cletus wrote:
Well, grain used to be a fact of life. ISO 400 ... up to maybe 1600 if you push-processed ... came with more graininess. That's just how it was, like snow in winter.
Now, graininess is just another "look" you can dial in when or if you want it. I use one of the simplest post-processing apps, the Mac OS Photos that I got for free with my computer. Even that lets me add grain when I feel like it.
Now, graininess is just another "look" you can dial in when or if you want it. I use one of the simplest post-processing apps, the Mac OS Photos that I got for free with my computer. Even that lets me add grain when I feel like it.
Dec 27, 2017 10:02:44 #
rmalarz wrote:
Rich, the first digital camera was invented in 1975. It was invented by Steve Sasson an engineer. This predates T-Max by some 10 years.
Oh, do you know who Steve worked for at the time he invented the first digital camera? ...............Kodak. Yup, Kodak invented the digital camera in 1975.
--Bob
Oh, do you know who Steve worked for at the time he invented the first digital camera? ...............Kodak. Yup, Kodak invented the digital camera in 1975.
--Bob
I believe a "film less" camera was first patented by an engineer at Texas Instruments earlier than that (1972). However the first digital camera announced for consumer sales was from Nikon around the same time as T-Max was introduced but, when I got out of the retail end of the game in late '88 deliveries still hadn't started.
Dec 27, 2017 10:17:39 #
None of the above approaches Kodak technical pan film. I treasure the 100 foot roll and 4x5 boxes in my deep freezer. This film has almost no grain, and great characteristics.
Dec 27, 2017 10:48:45 #
Dec 27, 2017 10:50:48 #
Why bother when one can enjoy all of the benefits of film by using film. That's what I do.
--Bob
--Bob
wishaw wrote:
why not get some software that mimics the old film. silver efex or exposure x3
Dec 27, 2017 10:57:53 #
wishaw wrote:
why not get some software that mimics the old film. silver efex or exposure x3
That's like those vegetarian restaurants that feel they must make fake meat. It's never as good as real meat, and there are plenty of good vegetarian ingredients to cook.
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