Rongnongno Loc: FL

It the season when folks start to greet each other with this phrase that really means nothing if you really think about.

The season to be jolly... What does that means?
The giving season... Uh?

Who decided the day of Jesus birth? Why?

As Christians you should ask yourself some questions about the whole thing.

Hopefully you will come to the same conclusion I have: The most important period of Jesus life, for a christian, is his death and subsequent resurrection. Even celebrating that at Easter is BS.

tjim Loc: Far Northern California

Wow. I'm glad to see your affirmation of Jesus' death and resurrection

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Oh my .... a Christian Scrooge

But even Scrooge found 'redemption' ...

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Scrooge for seeing the hypocrisy of these two words?

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Glad your going upstairs but I don't wish to play the game .... blessings, I have nothing further to say on this thread ;)

Gifted One Loc: S. E. Idaho

Bah humbag!  As the wordsmith I am betting you know the definition.  Most people don't it seems or even how to spell it.

When referring to a person, a humbug means a fraud or impostor, implying an element of unjustified publicity and spectacle. In modern usage, the word is most associated with the character Ebenezer Scrooge, created by Charles Dickens in his novella A Christmas Carol. His famous reference to Christmas, "Bah!

Wish you the true meaning of the season, as our friend Chuck would have us understand.

J. R.

bobishkan Loc: Fort Myers Sunny Florida

As I read your original post, I am having a hard time trying to figure you out. Most of what you say is just trash BUT you do make a really good statement about Jesus' life and resurrection. THEN you curse and say forget about Easter which is a celebration of the resurrection. I sense someone with a totally mixed up collection of theology that is really confused about what he believes. Remember that usually when you "discover" some new thoughts or ideas or theology that for thousands of years, the church fathers couldn't figure out, you are probably wrong. I hope you REALLY understand the one question that really counts: "WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?" Blessings and Merry Christmas, Bob

Yankeepapa6 Loc: New York City

My understanding is the early church picked this time of the year to combat "pagan" holidays around the same tie. For me, it really doesn't matter. That's not the reason to celebrate Christ. If you have a problem believing all I can say is....so what, not important.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

I curse? WHERE?

Easter season is the same BS as Christmas. We celebrate because we are 'ordered' to celebrate. Lemmings following lemmings just because. (No, this is not allusion of the legend about lemmings k*****g themselves).

Do check the history of many christian celebrations. What were they made to replace? What was the goal? Now do check the end result, the commercialization, the finances behind it.

The birth of Jesus is everyday. The resurrection is also every day. Everyday we have reasons to be happy we do not need a season or a day.

We have no date on birth or resurrection. It is a good thing since it likely we would have t***sformed these onto the same pagan celebration as we are doing already.

So, instead of talking trash, as you did, take the time to reflect and realize what is being said.

You claim to be a pastor, one even said 'godly man' in a past comment. There no godly men, there are no 'teachers'. Just false leaders.

I converted not because of a 'godly man' but because of a woman who was christian. She never said anything about it yet she was always kind, always doing things 'normal folks' did not do. She had a bible in her house. One day I asked her why. Her answer? 'It speaks to me'. The answer of an apparent lunatic. Yet, once again, her approach to everything was different and made me doubt. From there, I started to want the same thing. I did my first prayer alone. (Now I am going to upset many by the phrasing). That sucker answered me in an unexpected way. It gave me the worst gift anyone can have: 'Faith'. You cannot do anything with that other than believe. Yet by living under that 'curse' I have seen mountains move and real healing take place. I received three specific promises one day. One came to pass. The second, I am living it. The third will be realized as the second ends, when I die. The second? 'You will lack for nothing'. I never have since I received it. My life is about 'thank you'. Not about asking asking. Sometime I am asked to do things that makes no sense. This is when i saw mountains move. I saw the influence of god. I also saw evil while doing what I was tasked to do. Evil exists.

There is only the bible, god, and his son. The 'trinity' is an invention. The holy spirit is a messenger, a gift giver, not god but it does represent god.

In a previous conversation I heavily criticized those who want to create a specific meaning over the bible instead of living it. The bible does not need interpretation. It needs to be lived. The new testament also needs to be lived, more than anything else as Christ changed the rules. Reading it in any language is all well and good but it does not mean it is 'understood'. No one can pretend to understand anything. On the other end, everyone can let the bible speak to them.

Evil is in christmas and all other christian celebrations. Think of all who have nothing. Think of the feelings of those who are lonely for one reason or another. Yet 'merry christmas is the 'password' 'THE mantra'. For me, all those 'celebrations' are a time of reflection not a time of forced joyfulness or sorrow.

Ask yourself this very question.

I do not need your 'Blessings and Merry Christmas'. You are not one who can bless anyone. You are not god and neither am I nor is anyone else. You are a merchant.

One more thing... I am blessed. Not by you. By god. He has much more power because he is true.

-----
Note: Why no caps on god, son, holy spirit? Because i have not come to term with 'the jester in the sky'. I love the guy, don't ask me why.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

WOW .... only WOW!

Nobody made claim that is only found in Christ. However, all Christians can be used for God's glory and purposes. When I pray for someone I use the analogy of being a UPS driver at Christmas. I did not send the gift but was blessed to be chosen to deliver the gift.

I do know one thing .... the only person who gets excited when a Christian attacks another of the brethren is Satan, nuff said

Rongnongno Loc: FL

So now I am the son of satan uh?

taffthetooth Loc: U.K

This video may help answer of your questions, it's called Christ and Christmas by David Pawson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJBey7oun2U It is also available in 3 sections around 28 mins each, very informative.

KTJohnson Loc: Northern Michigan

(Please, stay with me to the end of this.)

What is Christmas? Is it anything important at all? There's certainly nothing important about the date: December 25th. It certainly isn't biblical! It was the direct adoption of a heathen festival observed on Dec. 24-25 in honor of the son of the Babylonian queen, Astarte. The early church fathers decided to Christianize it and in 336 A.D., Constantine declared it an official Roman holiday. Evidence from history and Scripture indicate that Christ was born in the Spring, possibly March or April.

What about the NAME? "Christmas" is a short form of "Christ-Mass" which came out of a Roman Catholic feast day, Christus Masé, established in 1038 A.D. Christmas is NOT a "holy day" or a divinely prescribed day. In 1224 A.D., St. Francis of Assisi started the "baby manger" thing when he started a new cult of the worship of Mary (surrounding her in the manger with a baby).

If it isn't the date or the name, maybe it's Santa Claus? No, it can't be about Santa Claus, because he never existed. The idea of Santa Claus is the result of a 4th century bishop's activity. This man, St. Nicholas, gave his possessions to poor people, and it became a tradition to look at St. Nicholas as a giver of gifts, and he was particularly meaningful to children. He became very popular in Holland and he was imported to America from the Netherlands. It became a custom for the children to be visited by St. Nicholas on Dec. 5th. The custom grew that they would put their wooden shoes by the fireplace to be filled with goodies. (Of course, fast-thinking Americans know you can get a lot more in a sock than a wood shoe.)

Well, if it isn't the name or the date, or Santa Claus, is it the CARDS? Well, that's not it because that started in England in the 1840s.

Well then, is Christmas the spirit of GIVING? Not anymore, it's the spirit of indulgence. Have you been to the mall lately? Christmas is BIG BUSINESS!

Maybe it's the TREE? No, that didn't arrive until the 16th century. The first person to have a lighted tree was Martin Luther. (Some folks believe a passage in Jer. 10:1-5 forbids the practice of having a Christmas tree, but it refers to making an IDOL out of a tree.)

So, what about Christmas is Christian? None of it. None of it is biblical, not a bit of it is commanded by the Lord, none of it is Scriptural, none of it is Apostolic, & none of it was ever observed by the early church. The Puritans in early America called Christmas "Romish Rags".

What is Christmas? Strip off the date, the name, Santa Claus, the cards, the tree, and the food ... What have you got? NOTHING! That's precisely what Christmas is ~ nothing. It isn't historical, it isn't Christian, it isn't anything!

Well, what about the birth of Jesus Christ? NOW, THAT'S SOMETHING! Sure, but that's not something to be celebrated once, it should be celebrated every day!

If Christmas is nothing, are we wrong to recognize it? Not necessarily, if we recognize that it is nothing. If we enjoy the time with family & friends, the love, being together ... there's nothing wrong with that.

But mostly, Christmas is important because it gives Christians an opportunity to catch a world that is at least a little bit aware of Jesus and give them the t***h about Him, THE GOSPEL. That He died for our sins, He was buried, and rose again. Every day is a celebration for those of us who know and Love Jesus Christ.

To a lot of people Christmas is a depressing time of year. It's an excuse to get drunk, have a party, leave work, get out of school, spend money, & overeat.

BUT, IT'S ALSO AN EXCUSE FOR US TO EXALT JESUS CHRIST TO A WORLD THAT IS AT LEAST TUNED IN TO HIS NAME! We should be ready to take advantage of it. Christmas is here to stay ... we might as well live with it and use the opportunity to exalt our Savior.

bobishkan Loc: Fort Myers Sunny Florida

Thank you for a well written, balanced, thoughtful and Christ centered post. You approached all the issues, pro and con, from a very biblical, non off the wall, well thought out basis and I, for one, would agree with you on every single word you printed. It's refreshing and we need more of this on this site. Blessings and Have a Christ Centered Christmas to you and family. Bob

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Christmas is one of the few times of the year where people come to us (the church). Actually it's very sad that most Christians live in the Christian 'ghetto'.

I prefer to use the term, "right to be heard". This is done by going outside the church and interacting with the community. In our little church we are greeted by all the schools in the local district as we have what we call "got your back". It is a ministry to homeless children .... Every Friday afternoon the homeless children are given a backpack filled with food for their entire family for the weekend. On Monday they return the backpack to school which in turn we pickup. The cycle starts all over the following Friday.

We are now serving hundreds of homeless children/families on an on-going basis. People now come to us and ask what is the gimmick. We ask for nothing, we place no tracts in the backpack as that would be against public school policy but still we are asked about why we do it. This is the moment where we have earned the "right to be heard".

This along with several other outreach programs has allowed us to lead people to Christ on an on-going basis .... meaning every week. For a church that started 14 months ago with 18 people we are on the move and I would say on average 5 people receive the Lord weekly.

Excited to see what the Lord has in His plans this year as the church will be going to 2 services after the first of the year.

Back to the original topic. By all means take advantage of the people coming through your doors at Christmas but frankly I'm a strong believer in the theory that healthy churches make babies. If your church is not growing you might want to consider asking why. With rare exception a church should be growing and spinning off other fellowships on an on-going basis.