Its sort of funny but sadly, its way too true.
Dec 9, 2017 12:16:26 #
Dec 9, 2017 16:37:41 #
I'm not sure what you mean? Better than the Bible study he was criticizing or the guy doing the critique? I think we can do better then both of them.
Dec 9, 2017 17:41:12 #
tjim wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean? Better than the Bible study he was criticizing or the guy doing the critique? I think we can do better then both of them.
I mean better on the bible study. This is sort of indicative of how folks do their bible interpretation these days. Certainly not everyone, but too many do. The bible means what it meant to the original author and that's what it means but folks (for some reason) think that all interpretations (no matter how contradictory), are valid just because someone holds them.
Dec 9, 2017 18:11:24 #
I appreciate your fervor in the inerrantcy of Scripture. I, too, believe that way. At the same time I have seen "faith abuse" arise from Biblical dogmatism that diverges from "Biblical inerrantcy" into "Biblical condemnation". When I was a pastor I was also a Kairos chaplain at Idaho State Penn. in Boise. I remember counseling an inmate (lifer) who knew the Bible very, very well. But he was convinced he was going to hell for his crime. It's a long story I won't bore you with but when he was young he was developing a young faith and was terribly abused in his faith by a condemning pastor who could find no Grace in the scriptures.
In that video the study group was obviously heading into a cheap grace based on "feel good" idealism and pantheism. On the other hand, the preacher left little room for belief that the Holy Spirit can work in a persons spirit and mind who does't have a degree in Biblical history and culture and just tries his/her best to understand the Bible.
In that video the study group was obviously heading into a cheap grace based on "feel good" idealism and pantheism. On the other hand, the preacher left little room for belief that the Holy Spirit can work in a persons spirit and mind who does't have a degree in Biblical history and culture and just tries his/her best to understand the Bible.
Dec 9, 2017 18:36:01 #
tjim wrote:
I appreciate your fervor in the inerrantcy of Scri... (show quote)
Did we watch the same video?
Dec 9, 2017 18:52:06 #
rpavich wrote:
Did we watch the same video?
O course we did. You posted the link. That question was just snarky.
Dec 9, 2017 18:59:19 #
tjim wrote:
O course we did. You posted the link. That question was just snarky.
It wasnt meant to be, it was meant to imply that what we got out of it was miles apart.
Dec 9, 2017 19:11:26 #
rpavich wrote:
It wasnt meant to be, it was meant to imply that what we got out of it was miles apart.
OK. So which one of us won't end up in heaven?
Dec 9, 2017 19:12:22 #
tjim wrote:
OK. So which one of us won't end up in heaven?
What in the heck are you talking about?
Dec 9, 2017 19:16:53 #
rpavich wrote:
What in the heck are you talking about?
Let me rephrase it. Which one of us will get to heaven if we are so far apart?
Dec 9, 2017 19:18:57 #
tjim wrote:
Let me rephrase it. Which one of us will get to heaven if we are so far apart?
You lost me.
The video was about bad bible interpretation. How not to go about it.
How did we get on the question of who is going to Heaven and if we are so far apart on what?
Dec 9, 2017 19:39:30 #
rpavich wrote:
You lost me.
The video was about bad bible interpretation. How not to go about it.
How did we get on the question of who is going to Heaven and if we are so far apart on what?
The video was about bad bible interpretation. How not to go about it.
How did we get on the question of who is going to Heaven and if we are so far apart on what?
You said "It wasnt meant to be, it was meant to imply that what we got out of it was miles apart."
Yes it was miles apart, So it is with human understanding of Scripture and videos. I don't know where that Bible study ended. Perhaps the leader brought the group to a good understanding of the verse. Perhaps he didn't. But the preacher, though he was faithful, didn't either. And yes, it was the same video.
Another story. As a hospital chaplain I was called into a patients room who was dying. She was of a Christian faith that taught fundamental Bible. She, also, studied the Bible very much. Her question to me was "how do I know I'm going to heaven"? I took the Bible and asked her to read Romans 10:9. She professed that she believed in the Lord, Jesus Christ and that He had risen from the dead. She had peace and died contented by one simple verse that may or may not have been taken out of context but she is in heaven....I'm sure of it.
"Getting to heaven" is the great hope of all Christians. I don't know why you are so confused about my question but let me answer it....both of us will. I have no doubt of your faith in Christ and I have no doubt in mine.
Dec 9, 2017 19:58:19 #
tjim wrote:
You said "It wasnt meant to be, it was meant ... (show quote)
The video was simple and easy to understand, heck even the title was a big clue. It was about proper interpretation of Gods word using the example of the all-too-often used phrase “what this verse means to me” and why thats so wrong.
The narrator rightly pointed out that its only important what the author meant the verse to say. He also emphasized the internalization of the word of God, to embrace it, to take it to heart. God speaks through the inscripted word, we should take its study very seriously.
As for the question of salvation, who's saved, who's not, that wasnt even brought up.
Dec 10, 2017 04:35:17 #
Now that I'm not on my iPad, I can type more easily.
The video was titled: "what does this verse mean to you? game"
The leader read the verse and asked "What do you think it means to you?" and they all gave the meaning; what it meant to them...and they were all different.
When the one guy objected that they cannot all hold differing views of the meaning yet all be right, he was chastised.
The narrator pointed out the following:
* A bible study like that has more to do with group therapy than bible interpretation.
* John MacArthur pointed out regarding such bible studies "avoid superficial interpretations, It's not important what it means to you...it's important that we know what it means if you were never here!" The authors meaning is what it means.
* If there eventually isn't a vital connection between the truth that is written on any give page of the bible and making that truth "your own" by embracing it in your mind and your heart and in your behavior to the point that you are deeply and permanently transformed by that truth, well then the words of the bible have not been truly interpreted and received at all for you.
* Unless you internalize it and it becomes part of who you are, then it's worthless to just superficially expose yourself to biblical truth.
* When you "subjectively" interpret scripture, the conclusion that you draw can only lead you into sin and error. We want to do all we can to avoid it.
* Until or unless you determine what the writer meant by he wrote, then it's irrelevant to ask what you think it means.
* People approach bible interpretation backwards, they start with what they think a verse means to them, especially when talking about things like election and baptism of the holy spirit or other things. They arrive at their conclusions based on their own sincerely held beliefs.
* That means they are interpreting what the writer believes based on what they believe, but interpretation is all about finding out what the person who wrote the book meant and believed.
* When you read a passage (for example Romans 9:19-23) The Potter and Clay passage. Paul's imaginary objector of God's hardening of some folks. It matters little what you think it means, your personal speculation and feelings are irrelevant. They can prevent you from getting to the truth and accurately finding out what Paul meant under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Now, what statement of all of those would you say is wrong and doesn't leave room for the Holy Spirit's illumination of God's word?
The video was titled: "what does this verse mean to you? game"
The leader read the verse and asked "What do you think it means to you?" and they all gave the meaning; what it meant to them...and they were all different.
When the one guy objected that they cannot all hold differing views of the meaning yet all be right, he was chastised.
The narrator pointed out the following:
* A bible study like that has more to do with group therapy than bible interpretation.
* John MacArthur pointed out regarding such bible studies "avoid superficial interpretations, It's not important what it means to you...it's important that we know what it means if you were never here!" The authors meaning is what it means.
* If there eventually isn't a vital connection between the truth that is written on any give page of the bible and making that truth "your own" by embracing it in your mind and your heart and in your behavior to the point that you are deeply and permanently transformed by that truth, well then the words of the bible have not been truly interpreted and received at all for you.
* Unless you internalize it and it becomes part of who you are, then it's worthless to just superficially expose yourself to biblical truth.
* When you "subjectively" interpret scripture, the conclusion that you draw can only lead you into sin and error. We want to do all we can to avoid it.
* Until or unless you determine what the writer meant by he wrote, then it's irrelevant to ask what you think it means.
* People approach bible interpretation backwards, they start with what they think a verse means to them, especially when talking about things like election and baptism of the holy spirit or other things. They arrive at their conclusions based on their own sincerely held beliefs.
* That means they are interpreting what the writer believes based on what they believe, but interpretation is all about finding out what the person who wrote the book meant and believed.
* When you read a passage (for example Romans 9:19-23) The Potter and Clay passage. Paul's imaginary objector of God's hardening of some folks. It matters little what you think it means, your personal speculation and feelings are irrelevant. They can prevent you from getting to the truth and accurately finding out what Paul meant under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Now, what statement of all of those would you say is wrong and doesn't leave room for the Holy Spirit's illumination of God's word?
Dec 10, 2017 04:35:17 #
Now that I'm not on my iPad, I can type more easily.
The video was titled: "what does this verse mean to you? game"
The leader read the verse and asked "What do you think it means to you?" and they all gave the meaning; what it meant to them...and they were all different.
When the one guy objected that they cannot all hold differing views of the meaning yet all be right, he was chastised.
The narrator pointed out the following:
* A bible study like that has more to do with group therapy than bible interpretation.
* John MacArthur pointed out regarding such bible studies "avoid superficial interpretations, It's not important what it means to you...it's important that we know what it means if you were never here!" The authors meaning is what it means.
* If there eventually isn't a vital connection between the truth that is written on any give page of the bible and making that truth "your own" by embracing it in your mind and your heart and in your behavior to the point that you are deeply and permanently transformed by that truth, well then the words of the bible have not been truly interpreted and received at all for you.
* Unless you internalize it and it becomes part of who you are, then it's worthless to just superficially expose yourself to biblical truth.
* When you "subjectively" interpret scripture, the conclusion that you draw can only lead you into sin and error. We want to do all we can to avoid it.
* Until or unless you determine what the writer meant by he wrote, then it's irrelevant to ask what you think it means.
* People approach bible interpretation backwards, they start with what they think a verse means to them, especially when talking about things like election and baptism of the holy spirit or other things. They arrive at their conclusions based on their own sincerely held beliefs.
* That means they are interpreting what the writer believes based on what they believe, but interpretation is all about finding out what the person who wrote the book meant and believed.
* When you read a passage (for example Romans 9:19-23) The Potter and Clay passage. Paul's imaginary objector of God's hardening of some folks. It matters little what you think it means, your personal speculation and feelings are irrelevant. They can prevent you from getting to the truth and accurately finding out what Paul meant under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
So, where in any of that did you get:
"... "faith abuse" arise from Biblical dogmatism that diverges from "Biblical inerrantcy" into "Biblical condemnation". "
(Where did you see condemnation?)
Or
"...but when he was young he was developing a young faith and was terribly abused in his faith by a condemning pastor who could find no Grace in the scriptures."
(How did you get "no grace" from any of that?)
Or "...
In that video the study group was obviously heading into a cheap grace based on "feel good" idealism and pantheism. On the other hand, the preacher left little room for belief that the Holy Spirit can work in a persons spirit and mind who does't have a degree in Biblical history and culture and just tries his/her best to understand the Bible."
(They were all interpreting the same verse based on what they felt, which is the wrong approach, as for having a biblical degree in Bible history and culture, he never mentioned that. Furthermore, the bible commands us to "study to show ourselves approved" and Church history is replete with folks who dove deep into the word to grasp it's meaning. You seem to be saying that study, in depth study is a bad thing. I guess I don't get what you are referring to when you say that the Holy Spirit works on a persons mind and heart...does the Holy Spirit magically give them an understanding of the word without study?)
That's why I asked "did you watch the same video that I did" because nothing you wrote was in the video.
The video was titled: "what does this verse mean to you? game"
The leader read the verse and asked "What do you think it means to you?" and they all gave the meaning; what it meant to them...and they were all different.
When the one guy objected that they cannot all hold differing views of the meaning yet all be right, he was chastised.
The narrator pointed out the following:
* A bible study like that has more to do with group therapy than bible interpretation.
* John MacArthur pointed out regarding such bible studies "avoid superficial interpretations, It's not important what it means to you...it's important that we know what it means if you were never here!" The authors meaning is what it means.
* If there eventually isn't a vital connection between the truth that is written on any give page of the bible and making that truth "your own" by embracing it in your mind and your heart and in your behavior to the point that you are deeply and permanently transformed by that truth, well then the words of the bible have not been truly interpreted and received at all for you.
* Unless you internalize it and it becomes part of who you are, then it's worthless to just superficially expose yourself to biblical truth.
* When you "subjectively" interpret scripture, the conclusion that you draw can only lead you into sin and error. We want to do all we can to avoid it.
* Until or unless you determine what the writer meant by he wrote, then it's irrelevant to ask what you think it means.
* People approach bible interpretation backwards, they start with what they think a verse means to them, especially when talking about things like election and baptism of the holy spirit or other things. They arrive at their conclusions based on their own sincerely held beliefs.
* That means they are interpreting what the writer believes based on what they believe, but interpretation is all about finding out what the person who wrote the book meant and believed.
* When you read a passage (for example Romans 9:19-23) The Potter and Clay passage. Paul's imaginary objector of God's hardening of some folks. It matters little what you think it means, your personal speculation and feelings are irrelevant. They can prevent you from getting to the truth and accurately finding out what Paul meant under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
So, where in any of that did you get:
"... "faith abuse" arise from Biblical dogmatism that diverges from "Biblical inerrantcy" into "Biblical condemnation". "
(Where did you see condemnation?)
Or
"...but when he was young he was developing a young faith and was terribly abused in his faith by a condemning pastor who could find no Grace in the scriptures."
(How did you get "no grace" from any of that?)
Or "...
In that video the study group was obviously heading into a cheap grace based on "feel good" idealism and pantheism. On the other hand, the preacher left little room for belief that the Holy Spirit can work in a persons spirit and mind who does't have a degree in Biblical history and culture and just tries his/her best to understand the Bible."
(They were all interpreting the same verse based on what they felt, which is the wrong approach, as for having a biblical degree in Bible history and culture, he never mentioned that. Furthermore, the bible commands us to "study to show ourselves approved" and Church history is replete with folks who dove deep into the word to grasp it's meaning. You seem to be saying that study, in depth study is a bad thing. I guess I don't get what you are referring to when you say that the Holy Spirit works on a persons mind and heart...does the Holy Spirit magically give them an understanding of the word without study?)
That's why I asked "did you watch the same video that I did" because nothing you wrote was in the video.
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