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African-American faces
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Nov 22, 2017 10:45:34   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Fotoartist wrote:
You may be suffering from white privilege and not know it. White people are just not subtley attuned to this area.


OK. Explain why you think an Afro-American photographer or artist will have more experience and or knowledge regarding shooting and printing mixed race groups. By the way, rational basis is a term of art in discussions of bias. You seem unfamiliar with this field as well as suffering with a lack of rational thought.

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Nov 22, 2017 10:55:10   #
markie1425 Loc: Bryn Mawr, PA
 
This topic has taken a bad downward turn. I wish I could turn it off.

My question was simple and stated that I will have NO ADVANCE TIME TO VISIT THE VENUE and NO ADVANCE TIME TO SEE THE PARTICIPANTS so that I needed some quick tips.

Thank you to all who answered, especially those who gave a few quick tips that I might use.

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Nov 22, 2017 11:02:59   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
Not necessary to shut this down. This is good information. My black photographer friends told me, pay more attention to the exact skin tone. Maybe it was just me as I tend to just make all my images pop a lot. But I learned you have to be more careful with African American portraits. When I said "white privilege" I was just being topical. But in all actuality I hadn't given it that much thought before. Just relating my experience. It was a good question from the OP. Shows he is aware.
dsmeltz wrote:
OK. Explain why you think an Afro-American photographer or artist will have more experience and or knowledge regarding shooting and printing mixed race groups. By the way, rational basis is a term of art in discussions of bias. You seem unfamiliar with this field as well as suffering with a lack of rational thought.



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Nov 22, 2017 11:12:45   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Here is an article regarding shooting and PP for mixed groups.

https://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-photograph-mixed-skin-tones/

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Nov 22, 2017 11:31:26   #
Jim Bob
 
Fotoartist wrote:
You may be suffering from white privilege and not know it. White people are just not subtley attuned to this area.


Exactly. And I wish this dissonance was just limited to photographic areas.

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Nov 22, 2017 11:32:39   #
Jim Bob
 
Fotoartist wrote:
Not necessary to shut this down. This is good information. My black photographer friends told me, pay more attention to the exact skin tone. Maybe it was just me as I tend to just make all my images pop a lot. But I learned you have to be more careful with African American portraits. When I said "white privilege" I was just being topical. But in all actuality I hadn't given it that much thought before. Just relating my experience. It was a good question from the OP. Shows he is aware.


No need to apologize for an astute, honest and true observation.

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Nov 22, 2017 11:35:19   #
Jim Bob
 
markie1425 wrote:
This topic has taken a bad downward turn. I wish I could turn it off.

My question was simple and stated that I will have NO ADVANCE TIME TO VISIT THE VENUE and NO ADVANCE TIME TO SEE THE PARTICIPANTS so that I needed some quick tips.

Thank you to all who answered, especially those who gave a few quick tips that I might use.


That’s because few people wish to admit their racist tendencies and that’s exactly why we can’t have a serious and civil discussion on the topic.

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Nov 22, 2017 11:38:50   #
Jim Bob
 
dsmeltz wrote:
OK. Explain why you think an Afro-American photographer or artist will have more experience and or knowledge regarding shooting and printing mixed race groups. By the way, rational basis is a term of art in discussions of bias. You seem unfamiliar with this field as well as suffering with a lack of rational thought.


Think about it and the answer might become obvious. If I own a foreign car it makes more sense to take it to a mechanic with experience on that make rather than to one who has only worked on Fords and Chevys. Get it now?

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Nov 22, 2017 11:45:50   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
I'm not trying to be controversial, just relating my experience, FYI. It took a little courage for my black friend to broach the subject to me that black people are keenly aware of skin tones when he saw my slightly oversaturated portraits. It was a little of an eye opener for me. It made me more aware. Just saying...

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Nov 22, 2017 11:49:58   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Jim Bob wrote:
Think about it and the answer might become obvious. If I own a foreign car it makes more sense to take it to a mechanic with experience on that make rather than to one who has only worked on Fords and Chevys. Get it now?



Bad analogy. If you owned a car built form part of a foreign car and parts of a domestic car where would you go. That analogy matches.

But more to the point, the article I posted focuses on many aspects of how to actually shoot and process particular photographic situation.

And keep in mind the person I responded to admits

Fotoartist wrote:
... in all actuality I hadn't given it that much thought ...

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Nov 22, 2017 11:52:52   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
Jim Bob wrote:
Think about it and the answer might become obvious. If I own a foreign car it makes more sense to take it to a mechanic with experience on that make rather than to one who has only worked on Fords and Chevys. Get it now?


Invalid analogy. Just because someone drives a Ford doesn't mean they know how to repair a Ford.

Shooting dark skin is no different from shooting any other object that may be darker than it's surroundings. Controlling tones is controlling tones. It doesn't matter a bit what is creating those tones.

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Nov 22, 2017 12:18:21   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
I am no expert. Have you heard the term "ashen" for example, and know what to look for and how to correct it? And lest we forget, do you remember the OJ photo controversy regarding skin tone?



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Nov 22, 2017 12:30:34   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
I've made this point before. In the two pics of OJ above, the black and white points are probably very objectively identical. What makes them so different is that the Gamma or grey point has been adjusted. Gamma is the point that is subjective. That is the point where you interpret and interject your values of the scene according to your subjectivity. Maybe it was unconscious to the editors of the magazines but that is what happens with Gamma.
Fotoartist wrote:
I am no expert. Have you heard the term "ashen" for example, and know what to look for and how to correct it? And lest we forget, do you remember the OJ photo controversy regarding skin tone?

Reply
Nov 22, 2017 12:47:36   #
canon Lee
 
markie1425 wrote:
I don't want to be un-PC, but I'm facing a small problem.

I've been doing reunion photography for my high school's classes. I've done over 30 of them, all as an unpaid volunteer with the stipulation that they provide food for me. I volunteer because the four hours of any high school reunion are often the happiest times on earth (and that happiness is infectious) and also I don't want our alumni, some of whom are loaded, others not so much, to spend extra money hiring a photographer.

For reunions, I use my Canon EOS Rebel T2i w/Canon EF-S 18-135mm lens and either the pop-up flash or my Canon Speedlite 430EX II with a diffuser, usually mounted on a bracket.

Otherwise, I'm a street photographer, so the only time I use the heavy T2i is for reunions, as many as four per year. I've photographed classes from 1950 through 1971.

Here's the problem: Next weekend, I will be photographing our graduation class of 1977's 40th reunion. My school existed from 1931 until 2011 when it was closed and the building converted into a charter school. Beginning in the mid-'60s, the school's demographics changed fairly rapidly. Whereas my 1961 graduation class had fewer than 2 percent people-of-color classmates, the 1977 class seems to have greater than 95 percent African-American classmates.

I will be going in blind. I haven't visited the reunion venue so I don't know either the lighting situation or the composition of the ceiling. And, I'm concerned about being able to capture all the facial details possible. Furthermore, the faces will be variable from very dark to light.

My thought is to bracket-mount my flash and adjust the tilt according to what I see on my first test shots.

I guess my main question is whether I should do anything specific to accurately capture dark faces.

I wrote this tentatively so as not to offend anyone. It's basically a question of the physics of light.

Thank you.
I don't want to be un-PC, but I'm facing a small p... (show quote)


Hi Markie.... Amazing how off topic this membership can get. I would suggest that you take a 3/4 shot. I personally have more trouble with young white kids blowing out facials (with their lack of color), then kids that have darker skin tones. I suggest that you use your camera mounted on a tripod. If you wish to purchase an umbrella/stand for more even light spread, I'd mount the flash there. Place the umbrella close to subject, just above eye level, and just to your right. Set your camera to F8, Shutter 1/125th, Iso 100% to start with, then walk back to place (frame) your camera. Take the photo, & then look at your histogram. Then adjust the Aperture to get the histogram to the correct exposure. For the group, I suggest if weather/daytime permitting, shoot it outdoors. Shooting next to a window is another suggestion, no need for speed light. You more than likely with be doing couples rather than individuals. Place the male behind the female, with their heads close.
You may have to learn how to adjust your flash in Manual mode, so that you can adjust the output, rather than adjusting the Aperture. The only problem I have had with dark skin is skin reflections. That is a matter of light placement/ output. Your equipment is good for this shoot.

Getting the shot close to the right exposure, is just part of the task. It is in Post Editing that you can adjust for good detail, sharpness and shadows. I use Light Room, and adjusting the black levels as well as the shadows would clear up any problems you might have.

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Nov 22, 2017 12:56:34   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
canon Lee wrote:
Hi Markie.... Amazing how off topic this membership can get. I would suggest that you take a 3/4 shot. I personally have more trouble with young white kids blowing out facials (with their lack of color), then kids that have darker skin tones. I suggest that you use your camera mounted on a tripod. If you wish to purchase an umbrella/stand for more even light spread, I'd mount the flash there. Place the umbrella close to subject, just above eye level, and just to your right. Set your camera to F8, Shutter 1/125th, Iso 100% to start with, then walk back to place (frame) your camera. Take the photo, & then look at your histogram. Then adjust the Aperture to get the histogram to the correct exposure. For the group, I suggest if weather/daytime permitting, shoot it outdoors. Shooting next to a window is another suggestion, no need for speed light. You more than likely with be doing couples rather than individuals. Place the male behind the female, with their heads close.
You may have to learn how to adjust your flash in Manual mode, so that you can adjust the output, rather than adjusting the Aperture. The only problem I have had with dark skin is skin reflections. That is a matter of light placement/ output. Your equipment is good for this shoot.

Getting the shot close to the right exposure, is just part of the task. It is in Post Editing that you can adjust for good detail, sharpness and shadows. I use Light Room, and adjusting the black levels as well as the shadows would clear up any problems you might have.
Hi Markie.... Amazing how off topic this membershi... (show quote)


After reading your response and rereading the OP, it is unclear if the OP is concerned about group photos or shots of individual students or both. Obviously, if shots are primarily of individuals, capturing a dark skin tone while not blowing out on clothing or decorations is an issue. On the other hand, if there is going to be mixed group shot, balancing the initial shot with a bit of PP is indicated.

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